IRC Log


	ððð Starting logfile freedows
	IRC log started Wed Jul 8 18:12:00 1998

	ððð Value of LOG set to ON
	<midryder> Alright - I'
	<midryder> I'm here and ready to go... <GRIN>
	<novalogic> this was kinda on the spur of the moment :)
	<weez> this is our first working with our bot =)
	<midryder> NovaLogic: Hmmm - next time, warn me! <GRIN>
	ððð whee [~whee@smateness.org] has left #thevoid
	<novalogic> ok
	<weez> this will also be posted on slashdot when done =)
	ððð [topic/#TheVoid(novalogic)] /msg Questions <any question you have
	for the freedows guys>
	<midryder> Synx: The CK concept is that the Cache Kernel is the lowest
	level of the system, handling the most basic needs. Then the next
	layer up is the 'System Kernels' which are more direct layers of OS su
	pport - Networking, Video, etc.. These are do
	ne as loadable modules that can be loaded if needed, or dumped when
	thier needs have been met...
	-weez:$*.org- there is a spur of the moment forum with a developer of
	the Freedows project, please join #TheVoid to participate
	ððð ivan [~ivan@dcpool3.anasazi.com] has joined #thevoid
	ððð ivan is ~ivan@dcpool3.anasazi.com (away)
	ððð mtdew2 [DICK@den-co52-02.ix.netcom.com] has joined #TheVoid
	ððð mtdew2 is DICK@den-co52-02.ix.netcom.com
	<midryder> Synx: The next layer up is what is called the FEAK's -
	Freedows Emulation Application Kernels. Normaly, this would just be
	known in as an Application Kernel under the original Stanford CK/AK
	model
	ððð scoop [scoop@road-kill.redhat.com] has joined #thevoid
	ððð scoop is scoop@road-kill.redhat.com (Is an IRC operator) (away)
	ððð scoop is scoop@road-kill.redhat.com (Is an IRC operator) (away)
	ððð [mode/#TheVoid(+o scoop)] by weez
	<midryder> Weez: The concept of Freedows is a freeware operating
	system designed to to be binary compatable with almost every other OS,
	which also requires quite a bit of hardware emulation for certain OS's
	t o be supported.
	<midryder> Weez: Initial release is planned to have Win16, Win32, DOS,
	and Linux compatablility.
	<midryder> Synx: Yes.
	<ChipX86> the FEAKs are dynamically loaded
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	ððð Thunder is TheGreates@/.flash.net
	<ChipX86> once you are done running, lets say, Microsoft Word for
	Windows, and it is the only Win32 app, the Win32 FEAK will shut down
	<midryder> Weez: Depends on the Hows of OS and hardware emulation. For
	those who follow the emulation scene, things like Dynamic
	Recompilation tend to help considerable in speed.
	<midryder> ChipX86: Correct.
	ððð zed [michael@host-209-214-177-4.ags.bellsout h.net] has joined
	#thevoid

	ððð zed is michael@host-209-214-177-4.ags.bellsouth .net
	<midryder> Shro0M: Yes, in a lot of ways it is similar, and shares
	some design concepts to it, I THINK I didn't follow the BeOS system
	very closely.
	<ChipX86> completely new
	<midryder> Thunder: Built from cratch.
	<midryder> Thunder: Er... Scratch...
	<ChipX86> the only ways in which it will have anything to do with
	linux is that they will be free and will have linux support
	<ChipX86> weez: it depends on what part of the project ;)
	<midryder> Weez: Not very, in many respects.... (More...)
	<ChipX86> things are not goin as fast as we had hoped, but things have
	not stopped.
	(Questions) ivan asks: what kind of sponsors do you have?
	ððð RancoR` [~MANAV_B@honoghr-103.mdm.mke.execpc.com ] has joined
	#thevoid
	<midryder> Weez: Right now, the lowest levels of the Kernel are being
	completed design wise. The only code being written is 'Proof Of
	Concept' code, so that everyone is SURE we have the right working
	concept s.
	<midryder> Ivan: None that I know of.
	<ChipX86> well, I am building up a business called NovaTek. I am
	creating a control library for public use
	<novalogic> I like that name :)
	<ChipX86> there is a chance that Freedows may use that... but its not
	really a sponsor thing
	<midryder> Weez: Last word I heard (As of this week) is a tentative
	date of starting of 'Real' code in two weeks, after the last couple of
	issues with SK's and Loadable Modules are completed.
	<weez> neat
	<midryder> ChipX86: Reece mentioned something about it, but, I never
	really got close to getting any real info. I'll have to talk to you
	later.... <GRIN>
	ððð You have 15 new messages since 04:39am.
	ùìù Questions has returned. (Typo, 13h 44m 9s)
	-SlashGlobal:- Attn SlashNET Users: You can now cloak your box's
	hostname to protect you from Nukes and other forms of DoS attacks,
	type /msg nickserv help set cloak for more information.
	<ChipX86> ok
	<midryder> Thunder: Inital support platform will be all x86 based.
	However, there are tentative plans for other platform support, but
	that's not an issue until the first x86 release
	<midryder> Zal: The plans call for both 'native mode' drivers for
	Freedows, and for a 'Compatability Mode' driver module for using
	Windows drivers. However, Compatability Mode drivers are only a
	concept at t he moment, and things can change quicly when w
	e get to that stage of development.
	<midryder> .... And the crowd goes silent.... <GRIN>
	<ChipX86> GCC will be one of the first apps ported to Freedows
	<ChipX86> that way, people can begin on developing other apps inside
	of Freedows
	<midryder> Thunder: Yes, there was talk of that. I can honestly say I

	don't know the status of that at the moment.
	<ChipX86> neither do I
	<ChipX86> since 1996, I believe. midryder?
	<midryder> Ivan: Wow... uh.... late 96 is when I joined, IIRC, and I
	was one of the originals. Actualy, Mid 96, I think.
	<midryder> Zal: Not very much... <GRIN> It was something that was
	kicked arround. Basicaly, building the nessisary SK to make the
	drivers think they are still in a Windows environment, and doing a lit
	tle communication back and forth. Compatability mod
	e drivers would be WAY slower, IMHO, but, for those items that have no
	other drivers available (some esoteric hardware) then it might be
	worth it.
	ððð julian_mo [~julian@p57-albatross-gui.tch.virgin.ne t] has joined
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	ððð julian_mo is ~julian@p57-albatross-gui.tch.virgin.net
	<ChipX86> hmm.. good question
	<RancoR`> 1500 total i think
	<RancoR`> approx
	<ChipX86> counting beta testers, around 2000, I believe
	<midryder> Ivan: WELL... there's two number I could give you. The
	number of people on the team, and the number doing something real.
	Number of people: Over a thousand. Doing things: less than 30.
	<weez> wow!
	<ChipX86> but, of course, not all of those are doing anything to help
	<RancoR`> ya
	<RancoR`> there are like a 100 for spanish traslation
	<midryder> Ivan: Beta Testers will be very important later....
	<RancoR`> but only 2 do a lot
	<ChipX86> ivan: we want to make a better Windows than Windows ;)
	<midryder> Ivan: Define REAL Multi-tasking... <GRIN>
	<ChipX86> it will most likely have better multitasking
	<ChipX86> hmm... late 1999, maybe
	<ChipX86> but that is just a guess
	<ChipX86> it all really depends on if we have trouble in the future or
	not, or if we decide to add/remove/change things
	<midryder> Weez: I REALLY wish that question wasn't asked... <GRIN>
	Supposedly, it was scheduled for late 1998. However, I've never
	believed that. ChipX86's suggestion of Late 99 is a realistic targe t,
	but I think I'ts going to fall into Mid 99,
	<weez> =)
	<midryder> Ivan: hehehhehe... well, that's the planned concept. Fun
	part about things like that is, probably won't be as good as Linux's
	multi-tasking in it's first release, I'll have to guess. It's going t
	o be a bit of refinment here, tweaking there,
	etc. However, it should beat the hell out of Windows style
	multi-tasking.
	ððð Doug-- [doug@eggdrops.com] has joined #thevoid
	<RancoR`> to bad we don't have prest here for that one
	<RancoR`> ;-)
	<ChipX86> heh
	ððð You have new mail.
	<weez> skip?

	<RancoR`> sure
	<ChipX86> sure
	<novalogic> maybe we'll come back to it :)
	<weez> .synx[ryan@defiant.netidea.com] no!
	<weez> .synx[ryan@defiant.netidea.com] that was an EASY question.
	<RancoR`> unless davis wants to say somethin
	<weez> =)
	<midryder> Synx: Extreemly varied backgrounds there. Me for instance,
	I've probably laid hands on just about everything that's come out
	since, oh, the Atari 2600.... <GRIN> But, that doesn't mean much . I
	really can't give an answer of "Well, so and so
	is qualified because of...." It does't work that way, since it's a
	team dynamic in the first place. Management doesn;t need tech details,
	high level designers don't know everthing outside of thier f
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	ððð whee is ~whee@smateness.org (Is an IRC operator)
	<novalogic> there we go
	<midryder> Yep, I was talking - long sentence <GRIN>
	<RancoR`> heh
	<ChipX86> heh.. you guys are only asking questions davis would know ;)
	<RancoR`> ya i know
	<RancoR`> how bout one that i can answer
	<midryder> Zal: Planned is inside. Don't ask me about implementation
	on that, though - Memory Management subsystems are one area I
	intentionaly left to someone else... <GRIN>
	<RancoR`> like the wut is the url for freedows
	<novalogic> RancoR: ok, what is the url? :)
	<midryder> ChipX86: Hehehehe - they asked one I don't have a real
	answer for at the moment (But I'm going to ask the Kernel team)
	<RancoR`> www.freedows.org
	<RancoR`> oh ya
	<midryder> Http://www.freedows.org
	ððð BitchX: Added HTTP/FTP grab [2]
	<RancoR`> i feel smart
	<RancoR`> dammit....he has to top me doesn't he
	<ChipX86> heh
	<midryder> (Just incase everyone missed it the first time... <GRIN>)
	<midryder> You got there first... <GRIN>
	<RancoR`> heh
	<ChipX86> weez: good question
	<midryder> Weez: Better damned well not have to!
	<ChipX86> another one for Davis, I would imagine
	<ChipX86> but
	<RancoR`> heh
	<midryder> Weez: Let me give a better answer than that...
	<ChipX86> there was a specification out for people to read...
	ùìù weez likes that answer =)
	<ChipX86> the feature will hopefully allow people to just shut down
	their computer without losing anything
	<ChipX86> if they get THAT implemented, I would think that you also
	wouldnt have to reboot...

	<midryder> Weez: The answer is technicaly, No. LM's and such prevent
	that from becoming a nessisty. However, there may be a few things that
	require that, simply because it can't be done dynamicaly.
	ððð whee [~whee@smateness.org] has left #thevoid
	<ChipX86> yes
	<ChipX86> for example, lets say we get this done before WindowsNT 5
	comes out
	<ChipX86> if we wanted to have support for WindowsNT 5, we would get a
	team together to write a WindowsNT 5 Application Kernels
	ððð You have new mail.
	<ChipX86> that Application Kernel would, obviously, provide support
	for WindowsNT 5
	<ChipX86> hmm.. well, that looks like the last question I can answer.
	I've got to leave
	<RancoR`> cya chip
	<novalogic> Ok, Thanks chip for all your help :)
	<ChipX86> e-mail me if anybody needs anything or if you post anything
	on slashdot.org. My e-mail address is chipx86@comports.com
	<ChipX86> cya
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] ChipX86 (Quit: RADIATION!!!!! I'M A FLY!!!!!)
	<midryder> Julian_Mo: I think that ChipX86's answer might be a little
	fast - it depends on WHERE they are going with an idea. If it's not
	good (and that happens from time to time with Microsoft) then it may
	not be part of the core of Freedows. However,
	since Freedows has a freely available codebase, just beause the team
	doesn't pick it up, doesn't mean it's not going to be done. Another
	thing to answer: Do you rea;;y need an WinCE based AutoPC on y
	<RancoR`> davis: should i put jason on?
	<midryder> Ivan: Yes, there will be a boot manager, since it's going
	to be very neessisary in the begining. what nature it's going to
	take... I don't know at the moment.
	ððð gator [~gator@ppp187-3.mosquitonet.com] has left #Thevoid
	<midryder> RancoR: Hmmmm... why not let me field without him for just
	a bit, if it's not a problem. However, you might invite him in...
	<RancoR`> there shouldn't be one
	<RancoR`> ok
	<RancoR`> np
	<weez> of course there shouldn't
	<weez> but it could happen
	<RancoR`> david: there shouldn't be one becasue of the Public GNU
	license
	<RancoR`> weez: on wut grounds
	<midryder> MtDew2: Shouldn't be a problem at all. We're not the only
	ones who have access to the Win32 API
	<weez> RancoR`, its microsoft, they'll think os something if they want
	it done ;)
	<midryder> RancoR: It could happen on a lot of grounds, or whithout
	grounds at all... <GRIN>
	<RancoR`> hheheh
	<RancoR`> u never know with m$ do u?
	<RancoR`> ;-)
	<midryder> consiupport: <--- I can't read the typo... <GRIN>

	<weez> i assume "consumer support"
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	<weez> dump 36
	<weez> wrong channel =P
	<midryder> Zal: How did Linux get accepted before there were enough
	drivers for complete hardware support? One of the major points there
	about if we don't have compatability mode drivers is who the 'early ad
	dopters' will be - major techies, since they n
	ow have access to the source code, just like with Linux. I'd rather
	depend on the Compatability Mode drivers for that, but....
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	ððð ellindo is lind@harconia-1-103.mdm.mke.execpc.com
	<midryder> Zal: Sometimes you have to go with what's going to work
	'Right' for the system. If that happens, then alot of it is going to
	be based off of the fact that the original users will be techies, will
	have access to the sources, etc....
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	<midryder> Zal: There are no undocumented fuction calls for the Win32
	API. Some are not documented by Microsoft, but nothing stays
	undocumented for long.
	ððð [mode/#TheVoid(+o ellindo)] by RancoR`
	ððð [mode/#TheVoid(+o mtdew2)] by RancoR`
	ððð JavaKilla [me@pm1-6.top.net] has joined #TheVoid
	ððð JavaKilla is me@pm1-6.top.net
	<mtdew2> hehe
	ððð ChipX86 [chipx86@209-142-2-19.stk.inreach.net] has joined #TheVoid
	ððð ChipX86 is chipx86@209-142-2-19.stk.inreach.net
	ððð [mode/#TheVoid(+o ChipX86)] by mtdew2
	<RancoR`> hey chip
	<ChipX86> I'm back. Didn't have to leave after all =P
	<midryder> Ivan: OH YES THERE WILL.... <GRIN> That's one of my
	favorite parts of Freedows. I have no idea what the 'finished' version
	of the UI will be, however there's alot of interesting 'help' avai
	lable in the system. And, there's NO WAY I could an
	swer the question fully in the timespan of this interview.
	<ChipX86> what was the question?
	<RancoR`> how-to sites
	<ChipX86> Ivan: basically, the ability to run other OS's stuff at the
	same time side-by-side
	<ChipX86> sharing a clipboard... etc
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	ððð dabman is ~dabman@1Cust168.tnt16.atl2.da.uu.net
	<midryder> Ivan: Freedows is more than JUST running more than one OS
	at a time. They are integrated. Imagine draggin and droping between
	Mac, Win32, Amiga, Etc... that's the idea.
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	ððð Griffin [griffin@Iceworld.Iceworld.Org] has joined #TheVoid
	ððð Griffin is griffin@Iceworld.Iceworld.Org
	<RancoR`> hey guys hat is coming
	<midryder> Ivan: Again, this is one of those questions that really
	can't be answered in a short fashion - I'd have to list the entire
	feature list!
	<weez> too bad this thing was spur-of-the moment
	ùìù novalogic has returned. (., 14h 23m 54s)
	<midryder> Zal: Nope, I cant. Anyone else onthe freedows team: Can you
	make them a realistic prediction?
	<weez> this would have been posted on slashdot, and we'd have many.
	many more people
	<weez> we are logging though =)
	<RancoR`> no clue davis
	<ChipX86> speed in the FEAKs? no clue, but it had better be fast ;)
	<midryder> Zal: I will add a little more to that answer....
	<midryder> Zal: First, it depends. Are you testing JUST one of the
	FEAK's and no other FEAKs loaded, and is that particular FEAK
	requiring hardware emulation at the same time? Each FEAK is going to
	have a d ifferent preformance level, based on many vari
	ables that are part of what is normally the Native OS.
	<midryder> Ivan: Default applications... anyone else on the Freedows
	team know? I know what was originally talked about, but the final
	result is going to be different, I'm sure.
	<midryder> Ivan: Guess I should answer part two of that....
	<ChipX86> well... most likely a text editor, basic word processor,
	graphics application, games, etc
	<ChipX86> the normal stuff
	<MrHat> ChipX86: and maybe a GUI set editor?
	<ChipX86> yes
	<ChipX86> definitely
	<MrHat> ChipX86: how about your java perogram =)
	<mtdew2> yeah
	<ChipX86> InterPhaze Personal Edition
	<ChipX86> but.. sourcecode wouldnt be released...
	<ChipX86> so I don't know about that
	<midryder> Ivan: What filesystems that are going to be supported was
	undecided when I left, and as far as I know is still undecided. Since
	the File System is an SK, you could have support for quite a few.
	<ChipX86> yeah
	<ChipX86> easily
	<ChipX86> go to www.freedows.org.
	<RancoR`> fill out a form at freedows.org
	<MrHat> well... the file systems
	<ChipX86> Somewhere there is a form to fill out
	<RancoR`> or talk to someone in the management
	<weez> for those who missed it =)
	<RancoR`> like me!
	<MrHat> do not quote me on this heh
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] Greyhame (Quit: ircII EPIC4pre1.200 -- This is
	the default quit message.)
	<mtdew2> heh

	<ChipX86> Zeno: Freedows is a free OS in development that will provide
	support for running applications on other operating systems
	<MrHat> but I am thinking we may have a special file system than will
	contain the other file systems
	<MrHat> we will probably support the ones of the OSes we use, and
	others
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	<RancoR`> kinda
	<ChipX86> I guess you could say that in a way...
	<MrHat> I know we will support FAT/FAT32
	<midryder> Zeno: <GRIN> Freedows is an operating system project to
	develop an operating system that is Binary compatable with quite a few
	other OS's, and is available under GNU
	<MrHat> cause if we can't even support FAT, we might as well throw in
	the towel
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] zeno (Quit: intresting, I'll checkout your site
	and apply soon. =))
	<MrHat> julian_mo: I don't know about IO specifically, but there may
	be some CPU speed differences...
	<MrHat> however, while we test, we will come up with ways to improve
	maybe even make it better than the original OS?)
	<midryder> Julian_Mo: depends on a lot of variables, again. For the
	most part, I would say no. For instance, if it's on an emulated
	hardware platform, there could easily be I/O speed loss.
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	ððð Cubic is ~coryb@/.cjnetworks.com
	<RancoR`> For the application form please go to www.freedows.org then
	choose your language and then mirror....once you are on the main page
	in the left frame there is a JOIN US! option......click that and th
	ere is the form!
	<ChipX86> no, I dont think so
	<midryder> JavaKilla: No.
	<MrHat> JavaKilla: well, hopefully not
	<ChipX86> most likely, there will be a directory containing
	directories for the FEAKs system files
	<MrHat> not partitions as recognized by FDISK or similar tools
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	<ChipX86> ivan: most applications wont even know they are using a
	different partition type
	<MrHat> but it may be file systems separated such that the mac
	programs can reas from the mac
	<ChipX86> if you run a Mac app, the FEAK will make it think it is
	running on a Mac partition
	<MrHat> though I actually just realized we SHOULDN'T do that...
	<ChipX86> there will by default be one partition, like a normal OS
	would need
	<MrHat> ivan: actually I think this is the way it'
	<MrHat> ll be
	<ChipX86> there will be a partition to sit on, but a user can create

	another partition to put, lets say, Mac apps on
	<MrHat> the partition will be one that supports LFNs
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] Ram85 (Quit: syntax: Leaving)
	<ChipX86> it had better be! =)
	<midryder> Ivan: Only if we ever want to continue breating.... <GRIN>
	<ChipX86> I'm sure we will make it Y2K compliant
	<MrHat> but when ever a program wants to write to the HD
	<ChipX86> we dont want to be stupid and think, "oh, 2 years until the
	year 2000. Well, lets not worry about Y2K compliancy yet."
	<MrHat> the libraries will in turn call the generic library for files
	<mtdew2> it should be Y2K compliant but it depends on the BIOS tooo
	<ChipX86> yes
	<MrHat> heh... if it's not Y2K compliant... it'll run like whay
	<MrHat> 5 days?
	<MrHat> heh
	<ChipX86> we hope so
	<MrHat> weez: we have actually discussed information about that...
	<ChipX86> if things are still going as once planned, we want to create
	this OS with user literacy options
	<MrHat> including the installation process
	<midryder> Ivan: And keep in mind, a good part of Y2K compliance is
	the applications...
	<ChipX86> for example, if a newbie uses the OS, then things can be
	done for him
	<midryder> Weez: It's planned to be quite friendly to even someone who
	hasn't had any experience.
	<MrHat> and we like to say... "Freedows = Options!"
	<ChipX86> yep
	<MrHat> ohhh 64 bit... hmmm
	<ChipX86> I'm not sure..
	<midryder> Weez: Again, this is one of those things that is a matter
	of you'd have to have the complete list of features... and there's
	some thought that will brought up as development goes along to assist
	a new user.
	<midryder> Synx: At this time, it's not been a concern. The x86
	platform isn't 64 bit yet ;-)
	<novalogic> I've been looking at Sparc4u's, 64 bit CPUs and found that
	my only OS choices are Solaris and SparcLinux
	<ChipX86> synx: I imagine it will become available in the future
	<MrHat> synx: are you referring to current 64 bit CPUs or possible
	future intel 64 bit cpus?
	<mtdew2> hmm 64 bit wasn't though of i think
	<MrHat> because at this time, we have been a bit touchy about porting
	<ChipX86> cant port until we have something to port =P
	<novalogic> good point :)
	<MrHat> but at the same time, we have been a bit joking
	<midryder> Synx: The intial version has to get out of the door before
	we can port anything!
	<ChipX86> novalogic: you can join Freedows and try to get a 64-bit
	porting team going ;)
	<midryder> Ivan: Take your pick. The UI is completely configurable.
	<ChipX86> we will most likely port Freedows in the future to other

	OS's. Either us or somebody else
	<ChipX86> Ivan: whatever you want
	<ChipX86> GUISets will allow the customizable look of the GUI
	<MrHat> at one point, we actually discussed N64 ports
	<ChipX86> yeah
	<MrHat> which is actually possible
	<midryder> NovaLogic: You suggested it, it's your job now! <GRIN>
	<mtdew2> freedows uses GUI and command line
	<mtdew2> hehe
	<MrHat> but no real plans are made to do so
	<novalogic> yikes :)
	<MrHat> the only draw back is to find a way to hook up an HD
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] Greyhame (Quit: looks interesting...I'll keep
	paying attention :-))
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] synx (Quit: doctors apt ;-))
	<ChipX86> novalogic: (btw, nice nick) if you decide to join Freedows,
	I'm sure Reece would be all for a port to 64-bit processors
	<ChipX86> as long as you get a team together that would work on it,
	that is
	<mtdew2> Yeah Reece would be open to improvements like that
	<novalogic> I'll be sure to keep a look out :)
	<MrHat> we've seen mice and keyboards been done (look at Mario Paint
	and NetLink for sega [I thuink that's what it wsd called])
	<ChipX86> well, we would like that
	<ChipX86> but I dont think we can promise that
	<midryder> NovaLogic: You can signup at: www.freedows.org ;-)
	<ChipX86> its up to the companies
	<RancoR`> davis: can't he directly talk to management?
	<MrHat> codelogic: we were hoping to possible talk to intel about
	supporting the new RISC chips they made
	<MrHat> but we don't know about how that'll work out
	<midryder> Questions: That's a decision that's up to manufactures and
	distributors of hardware, really....
	<ellindo> novalogic: I'm the MA/R lead
	<ellindo> in other members adminstration and recruitment
	<midryder> RancoR: Good point. NovaLogic: Ok, you can just talk to me
	or ellindo and sign up! <GRIN>
	<ChipX86> RoboHak: I would think be the end of the year, if we are
	lucky
	<MrHat> midryder: heh... questions didn't ask =)
	<ellindo> I'll sign you quick
	<ChipX86> but the alpha wouldnt be super wonderful ;)
	<ChipX86> but it would be something to use
	<mtdew2> hmm..
	<ellindo> we're expecting a full version by april last I heard
	<ChipX86> by april? hopefully...
	<novalogic> midryder, I'll be sure to signup as soon as I get the
	Sun4u 64bit cpu, thats still a few months off :)
	ððð nio [bemi@/.ppp.get2net.dk] has joined #TheVoid
	<ellindo> thats what Reece is saying...........
	ððð nio is bemi@/.ppp.get2net.dk
	<ChipX86> well, once coding begins, it should go faster

	<mtdew2> we're sup[pose to have a beta by late 1998 to early 1999
	<ellindo> yes
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	ððð Entropy is adodd@208.255.64.195
	<ChipX86> ivan: how is what through window managers?
	<midryder> Ivan: Please repeat that... unless someone wants to
	translate thr full question for me...
	<mtdew2> yep
	<novalogic> ivan?
	<midryder> AHhh... I know the question now....
	<ivan> it doesnt make sense anymore
	<ChipX86> whats the question?
	<ivan> it used to
	<ChipX86> we will answer it
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] RancoR` (Quit: Leaving)
	<midryder> I assume you are asking how the system can be configured
	for different UI's
	<midryder> Right?
	<novalogic> heh
	<ChipX86> if so, maybe I'll try to lead that team when I come back ;)
	<mtdew2> hehe nova
	<mtdew2> cool
	<ivan> how are you changing the desktop feel?
	<MrHat> (nothing big, but we have as many peoiple as #SlashDot)
	<ChipX86> GUISets
	<MrHat> anyway
	<MrHat> ivan: the GUIsets will be like a library
	<ChipX86> GUISets will (somehow) provide a way for quick system-wide
	or application-wide user interface change
	<MrHat> I'm not sure if you know how a metafile works
	<ChipX86> cubic: yep. sure do
	<mtdew2> hehe
	<ChipX86> but its old and outdated and shouldn't be ran
	<midryder> Ivan: So far, it hasn't been completely disigned from the
	top to bottom.
	<MrHat> Cubic: we don't have a great kernel
	<ellindo> getting close
	<midryder> Cubic: There's an older kernel that's not really for
	anything other than looks... <GRIN>
	<ellindo> from what I hear we'll have runable compilble code soon
	<MrHat> anyway, as metafile works like this
	<MrHat> its a special graphics file
	<MrHat> but instead of having the pixels...
	<MrHat> it'll have instructions
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] codelogic (Quit: ..(cyp): [BX] Does your mommy
	know you use BitchX?)
	<MrHat> like it'll have ascii code 2, then ascii codes 10 10 75 60
	<MrHat> and ascii code 2 may mean "draw a line"
	<ChipX86> mrhat: using my old specification? ;)
	<MrHat> and the 10 10 means coordinates 10,10
	<ChipX86> hope we use that
	<MrHat> and we goto 75 60

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	ððð Budweiser is b@1Cust228.tnt1.dca2.da.UU.net
	<MrHat> the GUIset should (hopefully) work like that
	<MrHat> but instead
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	ððð mattt is ~mattt@209.186.56.11
	<MrHat> it'll have relative coordinates
	<ChipX86> yes
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	ððð PennyW1se is static@itchy2-15-69.ionsys.com
	<MrHat> like the "X" for windows 95 will be (wild guess) 10 mixels
	from the right
	<ChipX86> now, GUISets may work like how MrHat described (and that is
	also how my old GUISet specification described), or it may take a form
	of a DLL-type file
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	ððð msw is ~msw@user-38lddbj.dialup.mindspring.com
	<MrHat> so it'll hold something like 2 10
	<ChipX86> that way, it could work like the Java JFC classes do
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] JavaKilla (Connection reset by peer)
	<MrHat> 2 for right (1 for left) and 10 for being 10 from the right
	<ChipX86> but most likely, it'll take the first form MrHat described
	<midryder> Point of this being: It's not a completed design yet.
	<ChipX86> novalogic: most likely like this...
	<MrHat> novalogic: the script would be ran as a linux program
	<ChipX86> yes
	<ChipX86> there we go =P
	<MrHat> and it'd recognize it as a linux program
	<MrHat> so the uname -a would actually return "Linux x.x.x"
	<ChipX86> and if a file isnt recognized for some reason, you could
	right-click it and go into its properties and tell it what OS it runs
	under
	<MrHat> like the configure script
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	ððð sellfone is sellfone@starshadow.com
	<midryder> RiX: No.
	<MrHat> hmm... maybe
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] msw (Quit: later)
	<weez> heh, a no and a maybe
	<ChipX86> heh
	<ChipX86> no
	<midryder> Gotta love answers like that! <GRIN>
	<weez> do i hear a yes?
	<ChipX86> there.. 2 nos and a maybe
	<MrHat> like if there is a file named "configure" in a tar file
	<MrHat> it'd automatically mark it as a linux binary
	<midryder> ellindo: Give the man a Yes, just so we've covered all the
	bases! <GRIN>
	<ChipX86> I think MrHat was talking about something other than the
	kernel
	<MrHat> I should have said maybe... instead of maybe

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	ððð tarp is admin@tarp.futureunix.net
	<midryder> RiX: You missed the original anwswer to that question WAY
	back when the interview started: It's based off the Cache Kernel
	concept, and is not a modified Linux kernel.
	<MrHat> oh... looks like we're beating out #SlashDot =)
	<MrHat> err
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	ððð whee is ~whee@smateness.org (Is an IRC operator)
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] mattt (Ping timeout)
	<MrHat> ahh I see why
	<MrHat> heh
	<novalogic> Yes, there is a log, it will be postyed on
	http://slashdot.org
	ððð BitchX: Added HTTP/FTP grab [3]
	<weez> Entropy, the first part of the question. yes, the bot we have
	is logging all of this
	<midryder> Entropy: Someone's logging this - or at least someone
	was...
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] Doug- (Quit: .x.)
	ððð whee is ~whee@smateness.org (Is an IRC operator)
	<MrHat> tarp: as for that, no we cannot reverse engineer
	<midryder> Entropy: There's a FAQ at the www.freedows.org site.
	<MrHat> I think we threw out some peoiple for trying that, or doing it
	<MrHat> tarp: well, we hope to support unix (Linux), and Windows, and
	MacOS, and other ones
	<midryder> Tarp: There is no- reverse engineering allowed.
	<MrHat> probabyly OS/2 next
	<ChipX86> brb
	<mtdew2> hm...
	<midryder> Ivan: Actualy, reverse engineering is considered illegal.
	It's done, but it leaves you wide open for lawsuits.
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	ððð Surazal is ~dfinton@dialup-6-117.d.umn.edu
	<midryder> Ivan: More than one company has learned that lesson.
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	#TheVoid
	ððð lyndon is ~lyndon@h24-64-216-197.gv.wave.shaw.ca
	<mtdew2> yep
	<ChipX86> back
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	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] lyndon (Quit: leaving)
	<midryder> Weez: Good question... and there's no difinitive answer
	yet, without having the system completely up and running.
	ððð quiet_one [cyril@oak-alg-gw10-8.ncal.verio.com] has joined
	#TheVoid

	ððð quiet_one is cyril@oak-alg-gw10-8.ncal.verio.com
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	<weez> um, you never got to the minimum requirements questions
	<weez> =)
	<midryder> Weez: Ooops... Did I fail to answer that one? <GRIN>
	<mtdew2> yeah
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] Cubic (Ping timeout)
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] jflowers (Quit: jflowers)
	<weez> is that a touchy subject right now? =)
	<midryder> Weez: Heheheh - I really don't know what the current target
	is. The original target was supposed to be 386 and up way back in mid
	96... but that moved on. Any other team members know what the cur rent
	target is?
	<ChipX86> wish I did
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	ððð sparky is ~root@elijah.nodomainname.net
	<mtdew2> ahh no
	<midryder> Weez: One of the important questions for a definintive
	answer is: What do you want to do with it? Playing Unreal will still
	most likely require the same requirements.
	<mtdew2> hm....
	<ChipX86> another good question..
	<mtdew2> yep
	<ChipX86> sellfone: we would have to answer that when we find out what
	will be bundled with him ;)
	<midryder> Sellfone: Good question. Wish I knew the answer, because it
	can't be answered untill the system is written 100%
	<MrHat> Neoteric: the 80x86 chips
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] sparky (Quit: Leaving)
	<ChipX86> Neoteric: some people are using Linux, some Windows95. We
	are almost all using either DJGPP or GCC on
	<mtdew2> yep
	<ChipX86> DJGPP on DOS, GCC on Linux >P
	<MrHat> any intel 80x86 or compatables (Cyrix, and AMD)
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	ððð Rip1 is talon@jlargent.iu.net
	<MrHat> and don;t forget the IDT machines =)
	<ChipX86> ahh.. good question
	<ChipX86> heres the answer:
	<ChipX86> which do you prefer?
	<midryder> IDT machines?
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	ððð Speedy is ~spider@r5arc1ad6.in-tch.com
	<novalogic> Chip: so both :)
	<MrHat> sellfone: all of them =)
	<ChipX86> you can choose to boot into a GUI and then load CLI whenever
	you want, or boot into a CLI and use GUI whenever you want
	<MrHat> you choose which one
	<ChipX86> or never use CLI or never use GUI
	<mtdew2> Yeah assumingly in setup you cvhoose Gui or command line
	<ChipX86> or you can use neither and be stuck

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	ððð tedh is ~tedh@tera.teralink.com
	<MrHat> errr
	<MrHat> not the right answer
	<mtdew2> blah
	<ChipX86> MrHat: who?
	<MrHat> mtdew2: don't start with the blas
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] Rip1 (Quit: )
	<ChipX86> weez: yep. 100%
	<ChipX86> nobody is being forced into this ;)
	<mtdew2> ok mrhat
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	ððð DavidW2 is davidw2@toldyouso.com
	<ChipX86> sellfone: I dont think that has been decided yet
	<ChipX86> hey dave
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	ððð j is ~jeremy@c613500-a.blfld1.ct.home.com
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	ððð soxen is soxen@206.40.159.112
	<midryder> Weez: We considered slave labor for a while... but, well,
	it doesn't work that well for Microsoft either.... <GRIN>
	<ChipX86> haha
	<mtdew2> hehe
	<mtdew2> Dave hi
	<DavidW2> hi...
	<midryder> 'Ello
	<DavidW2> might i ask what's going on in here?
	<MrHat> I wonder if...
	<ChipX86> you might...
	<mtdew2> I'm the person formerly named mog dave
	<ChipX86> they ask questions, we answer. simple, eh?
	<DavidW2> I know who your are
	<mtdew2> yep dave
	<midryder> You can ask... <GRIN>
	<MrHat> bah... guess it won't work here
	<ChipX86> probably barely any
	<ChipX86> mostly C, because we want to port
	<MrHat> If I get to write any of the graphics stuff though
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	ððð JMnemonic is jm@bibendum.3Sheep.com
	<MrHat> heh
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	ððð Cubic is ~coryb@/.cjnetworks.com
	<mtdew2> hmm
	<ChipX86> hmm
	<midryder> Neoteric: Between the optimizations in most C compilers,
	and the desire for portablility, Assembler isn't the best choice for
	the kob.
	<midryder> Brb....
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] tarp (Quit: damn this is getting lame.)
	<ChipX86> heh
	<mtdew2> hehe

	<weez> you shold have seen the number of stupid questions he submitted
	<MrHat> actually I thought Linux HAD a good API
	<MrHat> weez; none of them got thru =)
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	ððð d is ~drendite@1Cust240.tnt1.plano.tx.da.UU.n et (Is an IRC
	operator)
	<MrHat> I don't think mine did
	<weez> MrHat, we moderate them
	<MrHat> heh
	<MrHat> heh
	<weez> to prevent such issues
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	ððð graber_ is graber@ppp-4.cyberwar.com
	<weez> and your questions were rather stupid too =P
	<weez> "is this bot working?" heh
	<mtdew2> weez: I bet most are really stupid questions
	<MrHat> weez: he said the queue was high
	<DavidW2> I wish i knew of this server before... of xourse I know
	slashdot
	<mtdew2> hm.....
	<ChipX86> probably all
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] soxen (Quit: Hey! Where'd my controlling
	terminal go?)
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] DavidW2 (Quit: brb)
	<weez> its getting slow =) should i unmoderate and open for
	discussion?
	<midryder> Sellfone: Really, there's have to be support for all....
	<ChipX86> no ;)
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	ððð suprax is ~suprax@frdn2-10.netsync.net
	<weez> heh. alright =)
	<midryder> Weez: Oh PLEAZE dont... <GRIN>
	<weez> just tell me when..
	<mtdew2> Weez then it goes too fast
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	ððð [3B]Admiral_Zen is ~Doid@admiralzen.ne.MEDIAONE.net
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] tedh (Quit: gotta run but freedows sounds cool
	-- best of luck)
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	<midryder> Sellfone: Wish I had someone here who was working witht the
	concepts of the Linux FEAK - they would be able to tell you much more
	about some of the specifics like that.
	<mtdew2> yeah
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	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] AndrewES (Quit: Leaving)
	<mtdew2> There just a few of the many freedows members

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	<midryder> Julian_Mo: Freedows Emulation Application Kernel, IIRC.
	<ChipX86> Neoteric: this has been asked
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	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] suprax (Quit: BitchX: the ONLY three day cure!)
	<ChipX86> its because we want a system that not only emulated Windows
	apps, but other apps as well AND provides support like drag-drop
	between them
	<midryder> Neoteric: What's the advantage to that? You still have to
	load the Linux Kernel and all it's overhead, and Freedows isn't just
	for Linux users. Then there's the issue of making the different FEAK s
	work together... A lot of functionality plan
	ned for Freedows would be lost. And your right, this isn't the first
	time it's been asked.
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	ððð julian_mo [~julian@p57-albatross-gui.tch.virgin.ne t] has left
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	<mtdew2> Maybe
	<midryder> Barq: yes.
	<mtdew2> they do sound idealistic
	<DavidW2> I think WINE should be used
	<mtdew2> but they will be completed
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	<ChipX86> yes it does
	<mtdew2> yeah
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	<ChipX86> I think we would try to support that
	<ChipX86> we want to target all audiences ;)
	<DavidW2> It's definately going to be multi-user
	<mtdew2> yeah
	<midryder> Sellfone: Yes/
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	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] JavaKilla (Quit: Leaving)
	<mtdew2> ehh whoa
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	<midryder> Ivan: That falls into the same category as what apps are
	going to be included.
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	<midryder> Ivan: Untill it's released and decided, no one knows. There
	may be some that aren't part of the normal distribution because people
	aren't interseted, etc...
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	ððð ff is ff@lagged.net
	<midryder> Barq: Cisco has one that they use in a couple of thier
	routers that are based off the CK. Otherwise, none that I know of at

	this time.
	<mtdew2> hmm
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	<midryder> sellfone: Emulate as in emulation, or Emulate as in our
	system bases this off of the work of....
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	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] ChipX86 (Ping timeout)
	<novalogic> this is gonna be a long reply :)
	<mtdew2> hehe
	<midryder> Sellfone: Nothing in particular, really. There's pleanty of
	Unix influence in there, of course, but, there's no one thing that you
	can point at and say "We are going to do it just like that" becau se
	each OS has advantages and disadvantages, a
	nd then there's what has been learned from other OS mistakes,
	problems, and then there's completly new ideas.... etc.
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	<mtdew2> hm.
	<midryder> JMnemonic: It's planned, yes.
	<midryder> Barq: With which part? This is an OS, so there's quite a
	few areas....
	<mtdew2> hehe
	::: j [~jeremy@c613500-a.blfld1.ct.home.com] requested unknown CTCP
	WHAT from you
	<midryder> Barq: For example: For the Kernel, 100% Ace coding skills
	are needed.
	<novalogic> he died.. :P
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	ððð barq is barq@attl-pm1-242.tp.net
	<midryder> Zal: Yes, and no. There is some stuff over at
	www.freedows.org, however, most of the stuff right now it's "public
	release" it's working copies that change quite often.
	<midryder> Barq: With which part? This is an OS, so there's quite a
	few areas....
	<midryder> Barq: For example: For the Kernel, 100% Ace coding skills
	are needed.
	<midryder> Barq: Some areas are more lax than others, and some areas
	require specalized skills (like networking for example - to work in
	there, you'd have to have quite a bit of network programming
	experience )
	<mtdew2> hmm
	<midryder> Zal: For the very short term, FAT / FAT32 support. Longer
	term... who knows. There has not been a 'Native' filesystem that's
	compeletly speced out yet.
	ððð pav [pavlov@snacks.pavlov.net] has joined #thevoid
	ððð pav is pavlov@snacks.pavlov.net
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] Cubic (Quit: Cubic has no reason... just
	kidding :))
	<midryder> Sellfone: The intent is that they wouldn't. HOWEVER - when

	you get into multi-user security, things get a bit different. In that
	case, it would be better to handle that in the native Freedows OS, or
	depending on the service, at the SK level.
	ððð thebishop [bishop@p4.gw1.glouc.MA.tiac.com] has joined #thevoid
	ððð thebishop is bishop@p4.gw1.glouc.MA.tiac.com
	<midryder> J: Me personally, Win98, Win95, WinNT, Linux, DOS, and
	AmigaOS 3.1 (and waiting for OS 4 / 5!) Development is mainly done on
	x86 based platforms, Linux, Windows, DOS, etc.
	<midryder> J: Oh, and I also use WinCE
	<midryder> Sellfone: I have no clue what plans are in that area right
	now.
	<novalogic> Ok folks, we have nothing in the question list right now,
	So, should I take off the +m or call it a night?
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] DavidW2 (Quit: Hey! Where'd my controlling
	terminal go?)
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] lahuman8 (Quit: im fucking stupid.)
	<midryder> NovaLogic: Well... guess you can drop the +m....
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	ððð Cosmix is ~root@macau-27.ppp.hooked.net
	<novalogic> Alright :)
	<novalogic> heh
	<novalogic> oops
	<midryder> I don't mind answering tons of questions.... <GRIN>
	<pav> whats the point in freedows?
	<Shro0m> anyhow - as i was saying way back - the fs should be one big
	unified file system.
	<midryder> Quick: Put the =M back on! <GRIN>
	<pav> (;
	<Shro0m> with the appropriate 'folders' for everything.
	<mtdew2> NOva put +m on
	<sellfone> lol
	<pav> why try and recreate something that already exists? :)
	<sellfone> FREE
	<Shro0m> like the "/System Folder" for mac0s and "/windows" for
	windows, "/bin" etc...
	<RiX> what do u guys feel about Wine, gnome and Enlightenment?
	<pav> gnome is awsome :)
	<mtdew2> ONE AT A TIME
	<midryder> Acutaly, there's more to it than just FREE...
	<Shro0m> but for dos you just put a fake drive designation in front of
	it ... you know...
	<midryder> Shro0M - Well, join the project and have your say in the
	matter... <GRIN>
	ððð lonelyT [scott@dial-126-117.ucs.indiana.edu] has joined #TheVoid
	ððð lonelyT is scott@dial-126-117.ucs.indiana.edu
	<Shro0m> midryder: maybe so... :)
	ùìù weez thinks +m was nice
	<mtdew2> yeah
	<ellindo> no this is better
	ùìù mtdew2 agrees with weez
	<ellindo> everyone has a say
	<Shro0m> ah - hiding behind the at's as usual ;)

	<weez> alright
	<midryder> Shro0m: THat's one of the best bets is to see things done
	the way you like is to be a part of the effort.
	<mtdew2> ok
	<Griffin> if anyone is still around, what is going to be the default
	filesystem type?
	<midryder> And For the record - I both agree and disagree with your
	idea.
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	ððð MrJ is mrj@jeffd.i2k.net
	<Mozart> Questions: will this revolutionary operating system emulate
	the functions of the win32 dll's , or what happens here, i need to be
	enlightened
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	<midryder> Mozart: Yes, it will be able to support the Win32 API
	<Mozart> midryder: ohh, you plan on writing clones of the win32 dll
	set ?
	<midryder> (I know I missed a question here.... and can't find it on
	screen for some erason)
	<Griffin> mid: if anyone is still around, what is going to be the
	default filesystem type?
	<pav> is there a reason why there is no text on your website?
	<ellindo> there is text
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	ððð dmin is dmin@kamloops-04.kamloops.net
	<mtdew2> pav there is
	<ellindo> hmmmm
	<ellindo> dmin: ur from Kamloops?
	<midryder> Griffin: Default filesystem will be what you choose. For
	right now, we will be working with FAT/FAT32
	ùìù zed has returned.. i'm here ..1h 51m 35s
	<dmin> yea.
	<ellindo> you know Reece Sellin?
	<dmin> hehe, i know who he is but I dont know him.
	<ellindo> heheheheh
	ððð DrBardo [~jiva@206.159.102.33] has joined #thevoid
	ððð DrBardo is ~jiva@206.159.102.33
	<dmin> =)
	<Griffin> mid: how do you intend to deal with multi-user permissions
	on FAT/FAT32 based FS
	<mtdew2> heeh
	<Mozart> dont any of you developers consider this a hopeless cause, as
	soon as you reach a level of stability in your win32 compatibility ,
	microsoft changes the specs on their os, and your back to square one<
	/TD>
	<mtdew2> hmm true
	<Shro0m> their fakin the fat ... you know ... like fakin the phunk. oh
	nevermind.
	<sellfone> mozart if ms changes something that makes it so old apps
	wont run. people will not use it
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] thebishop (Quit: leaving)
	<pav> sure they will

	<sellfone> same thing with intel
	<pav> they've proven that plenty of times
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] lonelyT (Quit: Leaving)
	<Shro0m> how can they "change something so that old apps won't run"
	<sellfone> why are they still on i386 compatable platform
	<sellfone> pav when
	<sellfone> dos apps run in nt
	<midryder> Mozart: Yes, since the API for Win32 is contained with the
	.dlls, the functionality there has to be supported.
	<sellfone> win 3.1 apps run in win95
	<Shro0m> the 'dos' industry is so entrenched in backward compatibility
	the 8086 instructions will never die.
	<sellfone> well most do ;)
	<pav> heh
	<mtdew2> hehe
	<pav> ok, look :)
	<pav> freedows website:
	<pav> Freedows 98
	<Mozart> midryder: what makes you think ya can do better than the wine
	team ? they've been hacking away at this a long time with no
	spectacular results
	<pav> [INLINE]
	<midryder> Griffin: With lots of headaches! <GRIN> Multi-User security
	isn't possible on FAT/FAT32 really, so you can't run a really good
	secure system under it! <GRIN>
	<pav> [LINK] [LINK] [LINK] [LINK] [LINK] [LINK] [LINK] [LINK]
	<Shro0m> nt doesn't pretend to be backward compatible. nt is the only
	operating since MS makes. well ... aside from ms-dos.
	<pav> ;)
	<pav> nice page ;)
	<mtdew2> hmm
	<sellfone> pav: you see those [link] things?
	<Griffin> mid: thats what I was hinting at :)
	<sellfone> pav: hit enter on the very left one
	<mtdew2> click on the link
	<midryder> Griffin: (IE - under freedows using FAT instead of using
	another FS)
	<pav> sellfone: thats not the point
	<Shro0m> er s/since/system
	<DrBardo> Why develop Freedows when there are other systems like Wine
	etc that could use development effort?
	<sellfone> they do have pictures associated with the links pav
	<pav> so? ;)
	<sellfone> if you had your lynx.cfg setup to use zgv it would display
	as so:
	<barq> is there ALT TEXT for the pics?
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	ððð acf is acf@mike911.clark.net
	<midryder> DrBardo: Why do anything?
	<sellfone> [INLINE]
	<sellfone> [LINK]-[IMAGE] [LINK]-[IMAGE] [LINK]-[IMAGE] [LINK]-[IMAGE]
	<sellfone> [LINK]-[IMAGE] [LINK]-[IMAGE] [LINK]-[IMAGE] [LINK]-[IMAGE]

	<pav> barq: no :)
	<zal> they should hav text tags too
	<sellfone> they dont :P
	<sellfone> not even in graphical browsers ;)
	<pav> its the windows way(tm)
	<Shro0m> cope!
	<midryder> DrBardo: You gotta realize, Freedows isn't working on the
	same sort of functionality as Wine.
	<DrBardo> mid: answering a question with a question isn't an answer.
	<Shro0m> html is dead as a markup language. isn't that sad.
	<Mozart> what kind of functionality are we talkinga bout then ?
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	ððð LeftTwin is ~bvrielin@205.206.66.666
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	<acf> hi mozart
	<acf> slashapp working well?
	<zal> some of those comments remind me of the linux is obsolete thread
	back when linux first appeared
	<Mozart> acf: ahh, hello :) it needs a bigger or bolder font, i can
	hardly read it at this res
	ððð jlindo [lind@minbar-2-79.mdm.mke.execpc.com] has joined #thevoid
	ððð jlindo is lind@minbar-2-79.mdm.mke.execpc.com
	<mtdew2> yep
	<midryder> Mozart: Well, guess your going to have to read the web
	site, or check out the log when this is over - I'm not going to repeat
	the entire first 1/3rd of the conference! <GRIN>
	<acf> Mozart: yeah, i'll do that eventually. what res, btw?
	ððð [signoff/#TheVOid] ellindo (Ping timeout)
	<jlindo> ops back please
	<ellindo> thank you
	<mtdew2> hehe
	<novalogic> As as matter of fact
	<novalogic> I'm going to end the logfile now
	<Mozart> acf: 1024x768
	<novalogic> and start cleaning it up :)
	<mtdew2> ok
	IRC log ended Wed Jul 8 20:42:54 1998