Time	Nick	Text
20:00:29	Gullie	let's start?
20:00:32	rusty	heh
20:00:43	drdink	For those of you who don't know why you are here this is the forum with kuro5hin For those who don't know what that is, lets have rusty and Inoshiro describe it
20:01:24	Inoshiro	Well
20:01:26	rusty	kuro5hin is a website, similar to slashdot, in that anyone can submit articles and comment on them
20:01:33	Inoshiro	Kuro5hin.org is technology and culture from the trenches.
20:01:44	rusty	but we differ in that the articles that get posted to the site are voted on by readers as well
20:01:59	Inoshiro	We are a discussion based site, essentially
20:02:01	rusty	not just selected by a group of editors
20:02:22	drdink	okay
20:02:44	rusty	that's the summary version :-)
20:02:57	drdink	Now can we get a background of the people that run it, such as your name, your job, your SSN, why you do this, your favorite OS, etc? We'll start with rusty
20:03:13	rusty	start with inoshiro
20:03:19	drdink	Fine.
20:03:22	Inoshiro	Uh :) I'm Dylan Griffiths, from Canada. I don't have a SSN (Canadian's get the cooler sound SINs).
20:04:19	Questions	Octalppc asks: what does SIN stand for?
20:04:21	Inoshiro	I work at newsforge.com as a weekend editor, and spend the rest of my time working on kuro5hin, kuro5hin related projects, and my personal life Social Insurance number :) I run OpenBSD, Slackware Linux, and ROMed Win98 (just one machine) at home. ;) And I live in Saskatchewan.
20:05:20	rusty	ok. my name's Rusty Foster, I live in san francisco (now-- just moved here)
20:05:53	Ky|e	Where are you from originally?
20:05:55	rusty	I work for OpenSales (www.opensales.com /.org) originally I'm from Massachusetts, but started K5 while living in DC I run linux-- redhat, slackware, and in the past, suse
20:06:41	Ky|e	How Open is OpenSales? :P
20:06:54	rusty	OpenSales make GPL'ed e-commerce software so pretty open I love that i spend all my time working on free software :-)
20:07:37	drdink	Anything else before we move to the question queue?
20:07:50	rusty	don't think so
20:08:08	drdink	okie dokie
20:08:14	Questions	sugarush asks: Do you think kuro5hin.org competes with slashdot?
20:08:33	rusty	I don't think "competes" is the right term, really so, the short answer is no the longer answer is, we share a lot of the same audience and a lot of the same topic interests, but there's also quite a bit of divergence in both subject and "feel" we tend to have a lot more non-tech content and of course there's the differences in story moderation, and comment rating
20:10:08	Inoshiro	Slashdot is news oriented. You load it to get a quick fix, and maybe a few interesting comments Kuro5hin is discussion oriented. You load it to see the same discussions of the past few days, and continue your exchange of words in them
20:11:14	Questions	Gullie asks: Can you elaborate a little about the moderation and rating? How is it different from the slashdot system, and why is it better/worse?
20:11:16	Inoshiro	So we are as much in direct competition as UNIX Fireextinguishers and UNIX computers.. Yes, they can both be used in the same area, but the overlap tends to be less :)
20:11:42	rusty	ok, two parts-- first story voting any registered user can submit a story as soon as they are submitted, they go in an open voting queue that any other registered user can see you look at the queue, load a story, and then you have 4 voting options "Post to front page" "post to section only", "Don't care" and "Don't post"
20:13:01	Inoshiro	(for those of you curious about UNIX fire extinguishers: http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~henkm/extinguisher.html)
20:13:22	rusty	there is a certain threshold of votes a story must get to be posted, and once it reaches that, it goes up on the site admins *can* alter this process, but we don't ezxcept in extreme cases so.. the yupshot of all of this is that the readers determine what stories get posted
20:14:35	Gullie	Isn't this kind of moderation extra vulnerable for abuse?
20:14:42	rusty	Inoshiro: would you like to tackle mojo? um no, because one person only has one vote
20:14:58	Inoshiro	Ahh, Mojo :)
20:15:06	rusty	and the score can be a percentage of registered users so, you can create accounts to vote with till the cows come home, but the score needed will keep increasing too
20:15:56	Gullie	rusty: Okay, that sounds quite solid :-) Thanks.
20:16:04	Inoshiro	Ok. Mojo is how we have trust setup on Kuro5hin. It's kinda like story ratings in that each person gets a say You can mark a comment anywhere from 1.0 to 5.0 The actual 'score' is an average of everyone's decision
20:17:32	rusty	(to two deciomal places)
20:17:43	Inoshiro	Now, if you get a high enough score on your n most recent comments in the past y days, you can become trusted for a brief period This means you are also allows to rate comments to 0.00 This is used in cases where a user has created an account to not contribute to the community, such as the spammer in July
20:18:48	rusty	the thing with 0 ratings is comments rated below one are not visible to anyone but trusted users they may rate them up above one if they deserve it or not users who get rated down often enough become "untrusted" and post with a default rating equal to their mojo (i.e. below one) which means their posts must be rated up by a trusted user to become visible even to the poster him/her self this is meant to provide a strong disincentive to spamming
20:20:55	Questions	cesarb asks: What do you think about splitting story votes in +1/0/-1 and Front Page/Section/I Don't Care?
20:21:29	rusty	we've discussed this a lot, along with various other potential changes to the voting obviously no system is perfect, or necessarily permanent I'm not sure that that particular split would quite do the trick though if there were to be a change i think I'd rather see it along the lines of votiers categorize the story by section, and then say whether it should be front page also, or not and two options in the section list are "no opinion" and "decline"
20:23:31	Inoshiro	My opinion Is that I'd rather not see our voting system become meta to the point of having several different options to choose with each vote
20:24:00	rusty	yes
20:24:07	Inoshiro	2 widgets is pushing it :) (IMO)
20:24:24	rusty	i'd rather consolidate into one thing as well but I'm not convinced the current "one thing" quite does it
20:24:54	Questions	cesarb asks: What do you think of slashdot?
20:25:04	rusty	we dig slashdot :-)
20:25:28	Inoshiro	Well..
20:25:36	rusty	i give the /. gang a lot of credit for all the work it takes to run a site like that
20:25:50	Inoshiro	I started reading Slashdot back in '99.. summer ish.. then I stopped reading and posting once I got about ~80 karma in one month :)
20:25:51	rusty	and for really being the first to do it at the scale they do
20:26:15	Inoshiro	Yeah. A lot of people don't appreciate the kind of work it takes to get hair perl on bad hardware doing useful things.
20:26:25	rusty	heh
20:26:38	Inoshiro	And Slash is as hairy as you get, unless you have that disorder which covers 99% of your body with hair.
20:26:49	rusty	ok, we better move on now :-)
20:26:54	Questions	Ky|e asks: Is there anything you wish you could have done differently?
20:27:18	rusty	hm various things in the design of Scoop that I would like to revisit but i don't think any action is permanent
20:27:57	Inoshiro	http://www.thock.com/Dylan/pics/rusty_cam/rusty_yipes.jpg <--- I betcha Rusty regretted that
20:28:04	rusty	so if i think something should be done differently, I''' usually start doing it differently ha! no way. that picture's great
20:28:28	Inoshiro	Well :) I would've liked to have not sounded like such an incoherent shut in in that slashdor interview
20:29:07	rusty	"So me and this guy were like, y'know, watching the simpsons..." :-)
20:29:15	Inoshiro	Yeah I got quoted as being 'a card' on some news site for that
20:29:30	Questions	cesarb asks: So, where's the fortunes database?
20:29:50		rusty asks: why is cesarb the only one getting questions in?
20:30:00	rusty	and what is this one about?
20:30:16	Gullie	rusty: there are a few people that sent in a lot of questions
20:30:27	Inoshiro	Yeah The fortunes database is supposed to be a nice kuro5hin db for your fortune login, kinda like Linux fortunes You know. "Linus Torvalds on 1.3.33. 'Celebrate this kernel, not Christmas -- it is the second coming'" that kinda thing Once we get enough memorable interesting quotes, I'll publish it somewhere :-)
20:31:35	Questions	cesarb asks: What do you think of JonKatz?
20:31:43	Inoshiro	Oooh
20:31:47		rusty was a "Quote of the day" this week BTW
20:31:51	rusty	Jon Jon Katz is a very nice guy who has a lot of trouble dealing with technology :-) i've traded quite a few email with him, and he does have a K5 account and a lot of cookie problems :-)
20:32:49	Inoshiro	Hmmm I can honestly say I've never read anything that I could parse as coherent from him I'd read a paragraph and get no real sense of an opinion, or even reported facts He's clearly not writing for people like me
20:33:58	rusty	I think, personally, he's a little out of his depth writing for the /. audience
20:34:01	Inoshiro	So I ignore his postings to sites I frequent. I wouldn't mind having a chat with him to see if there is more to him :) Yeah
20:34:13	rusty	but he seems to enjoy it, so, go figure
20:34:31	Inoshiro	And some people do seem to find interesting things in his word s
20:34:33	Questions	rusty asks: Why is Inoshiro such a dork?
20:34:39	Inoshiro	Uh Hold on
20:34:41	rusty	rofl
20:34:47	Inoshiro	Ok Back to me
20:34:53	rusty	ha
20:34:56	Inoshiro	:-)
20:35:07	Questions	AArthur asks: Kuro5hin vs. Slashdot. Which is better? Why?
20:35:21	rusty	K5 is better :-)
20:35:27		Inoshiro experiences deja vu
20:35:31	rusty	next :-)
20:35:36	Questions	GandalfGreyhame asks: Inoshiro and rusty , how much editing are you willing to do to keep Kuro5hin kuro5hin and not Slashdot? As in, when something such as the lego-dj gets to the front page due to moderator stupidity, how willing are you to move it?
20:35:55	rusty	I'm not very willing to do that kind of thing I edit for grammar and language i occasionally recategorize stuff but the whole idea is that the readers vote who the hell am i to say they voted "stupidly" on something?
20:36:35	Inoshiro	Regardless of how "stupid" it may seem to a vocal minority
20:36:41	rusty	right
20:37:14	Inoshiro	As for me, I tend to fixup HTML problems and obvious typoes I will move the odd story around (depending on how well it was written up)
20:37:58	rusty	we try our best not to "editors" in the /. sense though
20:38:02	Inoshiro	But it's rare and only happens after we have a increase of 'new people' in the population :)
20:38:44	Questions	Octalppc asks: were you forced to sell your soul for the VA hardware?
20:38:49	Inoshiro	LOL
20:38:53	rusty	lol not at all
20:39:04	Inoshiro	Well
20:39:11	rusty	Chris Dibona contacted me after the black screen of death went up
20:39:13	Inoshiro	But it wasn't signed in blood, so it doesn't count//
20:39:17	rusty	and asked if we needed anything i said we'd love some hardware, and they sent us some it was explicitly a donation
20:39:37	Inoshiro	All hardware donations in the future may go to Dylan Griffiths, #15, 320 Clar.. :-)
20:39:42	rusty	not a trade of any sort
20:40:09	Questions	Silaron asks: speaking of the VA thing, what happened to the banners? will you be using them again at some point, or is VA supplying bandwith, as well?
20:40:09	rusty	we put up the VA ad out of gratitude, and because we thik they're a good company and deserve the community's support VHosting.com is supplying bandwidth
20:40:22	Inoshiro	Vhosting.com does bandwidth You'd think it'd be obvious from the banner, but .. ;)
20:40:34	rusty	banners, i don't know the old banners, frankly, sucked and made us no money either so those will not be back selling ads isn't really a business i want to be in but in the future, we may look to do that, and outsource it to someone who can provide relevant ads. I don't think we'll ever do "banner" ads though they 're annoying :-)
20:42:18	Questions	qslack asks: Say VA/Andover proposed to buy K5. What would your reaction be?
20:42:35	rusty	I think i answered this on /. already :-)
20:42:39	Inoshiro	It really depends.. are we in financial trouble? And how much? I mean, I won't turn down a million dollars
20:42:52	rusty	on a more general note yes we would! don't listen to Inoshiro
20:43:13	Inoshiro	because 1,000,000 USD is like 2.09e99 CDN
20:43:15	rusty	i'm not afraid of the idea of selling K5 because i don't think it matters who "owns" it
20:43:33	Inoshiro
20:43:35	rusty	as long as they keep hands off
20:43:39	Questions	Psychosis asks: Say MSN proposed to buy K5. What would your reaction be?
20:43:44	rusty	ha no
20:43:52		Inoshiro has standards
20:43:57	rusty	some things you just can't live with. :-)
20:44:35	Questions	AArthur asks: rusty: Is kuro5hin "pronounced" corroision a reference to lsd ?
20:44:46	Inoshiro	What?! RTFAQ
20:44:56	rusty	whoah random yeah, read the faq
20:45:10	Inoshiro	http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=special;page=faq#kuro5hin HTH. HAND.
20:45:28	Questions	cesarb asks: What do you think about Python?
20:45:47	rusty	I love monty python. some of the funniest comedy ever on tv john cleese is a genius fawlty towers was great too
20:46:37	drdink	hmm, I thought he meant the programming language :P
20:46:39	Inoshiro	OTOH, Python can be neat for things like OO stuff ;) I mean, look at the Quest for the Holy Grail A giant wooden object was thrown by french objects at english objects That's so object oriented
20:47:27	rusty	i think the answer here is "we do not engage in language wars in public." :-)
20:47:54	Questions	cesarb asks: What was your FIRST thought when you knew about the DDoS attacks?
20:48:06	rusty	um
20:48:12	Inoshiro	Well
20:48:13	rusty	clarification: they were not DDoS attacks despite widespread mis-reporting
20:48:32	Inoshiro	And it wasn't cracked into Or harrased in that way Some guy took a perl script used for posting crap to slashdot, and started posting crap to K5 with it Likely, it was some guy who was voted down by the community or had bitter feelings for some other reason So they started spamming us I have no idea why someone would be so immature as to do that But then, there are people who pick on other people in school for the same reason So I'm guessing this person, who normally felt powerless, decided to use their 31337 perl skillz with some open proxies and bombard us for their own sick amusement It really disgusted me
20:50:44	rusty	yes while /. has put up with this for a long time, I decided we'd rather not frankly, i felt sick for 3 days i just couldn't understand why you'd do that i still don't so, it wasn't so much a first thought, as a first feeling. and it didn't go away either
20:52:06	Questions	sugarush asks: Did you investigate to see if you could find who did it?
20:52:15	Inoshiro	Yes I took all the steps I could to investigate it This included mailing people, calling long distance, etc. Because I don't have much money (no paycheques in a year or so ;)), I couldn't afford to call over seas But I did call all over the US. From this, I learned a few things: 1) There are so many open proxies, I plan on eventually doing proactive checking to ensure that k1dd13 cannot abuse improperly administrated systems 2) Even when you mail, call, and harras the people involved, they are often too clueless or powerless (because of no clues higher up) to do anything meaningful One of the attacks was from a school in the United States They had some sort of proxy-censorware setup with NO acls When I talked with them, they mentioned the server had just been left on unattended over the summer Apparently, the harddisk had filled up on the 23rd from the spammer abusing the server to look at porn Since they had Netware, the log was not in an easily parsable (i.e.: text) format. They had to call in a consultant who spoke with me. There's way more, but it'll have to wait for the article :)
20:57:02	rusty	i just want to give a lot of credit to Inoshiro for doing all the legwork in our attemnpt to find out who did it
20:57:36	Questions	GandalfGreyhame asks: You've said, in the last update to the BSOD before K5 went back up, that you'd be publishing a list of networks uncooperative in helping you. Where's the list??
20:57:50	Inoshiro	In the forthcoming article Can't you see the future? :-)
20:58:06	drdink	I can.
20:58:17	Inoshiro	"And it's filled with killer robots and cyborgs"
20:58:22	drdink	no "The future is so bright, I've got to wear shades"
20:58:33	rusty	and it holds another question... :-)
20:58:38	Questions	Silaron asks: do you see kuro5hin as being around for a while? if not in its current incarnation, then as a list, or as a channel on some random irc network, or otherwise?
20:58:56	rusty	kuro5hin is here to stay, as far as I'm concerned i think it'll remain a website for as long as that's the best we've got to work with basically, I'll support it as long as the readers are interested so it's up to you
20:59:59	Gullie	Did something like kuro5hin exist before the website? (like a list .... )
21:00:01	Inoshiro	I agree with rusty :)
21:00:07	rusty	Gullie: nope
21:00:07	Inoshiro	No
21:00:25	rusty	I existed as "kuro5hin" for a while before there was a website it was an online alias on /. for example
21:00:47	Questions	Ky|e asks: Have you considered porting K5 to be a Web-DAV-compliant web application taking advantage of COM+ using the advanced stability and scalability features of Windows 2000 Advanced Server?
21:01:00	Inoshiro	My head hurts
21:01:07	rusty	yes, but then we decided that that was a pack of lies and forgot about it :-)
21:01:09		Inoshiro feels like he's just gone 4 rounds with Katz writing
21:01:11	rusty	next :-)
21:01:19	Questions	AArthur asks: What type of site is scoop best for? Is it overkill for a simple news and docmentation site?
21:01:29	rusty	i don't think so I think it could, and probably will, be applied in everything from personal sites to large web news services i think as scoop imporves, it'll be easier for people to try it out and see where it works for them
21:02:39	Inoshiro	By improves, he means works at all
21:02:50	rusty	you may see it popping up elsewhere on the web in the near future as well ;-) Inoshiro: :-P
21:03:01	Inoshiro	Ahem IPC::Cache 500 ISE >;) But rusty fixed all that
21:03:28		rusty will not even respond to that
21:03:38	Questions	roblimo asks: How does it feel to have sold out and have those "sponsor" tags on the site? Does this mean you are corporate scum now?
21:03:50	rusty	rofl
21:03:57	Inoshiro	LMAO
21:04:04	rusty	actually, it's great
21:04:09	Inoshiro	Yeah
21:04:11	rusty	cause we don't have to run banners anymore
21:04:20	Inoshiro	I love being flow out to Andover head quarters and made to portscan script kiddies
21:04:24	rusty	we wanted hardware and bandwidth, and we got those things and i like the nice little sponsor box a lot better than the ugly banners
21:05:01	Inoshiro	Links are more tasteful than silly animated gifs
21:05:29	rusty	and to answer the point of the question-- we don't share the general fear and loathing of companies that seems common in those who've never worked for a company i.e. the yourger kids on /., who are usually the corporate conspiracy theorists
21:06:21	Inoshiro	I've never understood the Bowie Powag school of thought on companies
21:06:27	rusty	heh but we won't go there.
21:06:44	Questions	AArthur asks: KDE or GNOME or ?
21:06:49	Inoshiro	Uhm
21:06:59	rusty	GNOME :-)
21:07:02	Inoshiro	Does TWM count?
21:07:13	Ky|e	No.
21:07:14	rusty	KDE is cool though. more stable, less pretty
21:07:23	Inoshiro	Yeah, but people treat you differently if you run it
21:07:29	rusty	again, desktop wars... what's the point? they're both cool
21:07:40	Inoshiro	"Dude, you run KDE!? Not that there's anything wrong with that." <-- It's like being gay (to quote rusty)
21:07:46	rusty	lol yeah-- that irritates me
21:08:03	Inoshiro	KDE has all the things Gnome needs Documentation, GUI applets for config of KDM Things that are needed for the massive migration to Linux before the final world-domination thing happens But, I've said too much already :)
21:08:40	Questions	sugarush asks: Do you think the voted articles for submission make breaking news not so breaking?
21:08:59	rusty	yes usually
21:09:07	Inoshiro	It depends, though On how many people vote+1
21:09:16	rusty	which is cool by us. We don't really try to be a "breaking news" site we try to be the place everyone goes to talk about the breaking news they just read elsewhere
21:09:51	Inoshiro	Ahem slashdot ;) Ahem newsfroge
21:10:00	rusty	with other smart people who can help make sense of it yeah there are a billion news sites
21:10:11	Inoshiro	Those are news sites
21:10:15	rusty	we don't need to be one too
21:10:20		drdink goes to register newsfroge.com
21:10:34	rusty	newsfrog :-)
21:10:37	Inoshiro	(Yeah, it's a typo.. go to newsforge.com) Moving along from new webconcepts
21:10:53	Questions	DJBongHit asks: You try to be a discussion site and leave articles on the main page longer - but what happens when your readerbase gets a lot bigger and stories are voted up more often? What would you do in that case?
21:11:07	Inoshiro	Wow, that's a good question
21:11:12	rusty	partly, sections are an attempt to deal with that eventuality right now, sections aren't really *needed* but they're there for when the news feed becomes too much for one page to handle
21:12:11	Inoshiro	Of course, that's when we'll probably be at a maximum sustainable population Slashdot has handled the growth by having an artificial limit on stories posted vs. stories submitted For K5, that won't work
21:12:54	rusty	we may eventually need to break up into multiple sites, or segment in some other way
21:12:57	Inoshiro	Eventually we'll reach a maximum. I assume we'll just start to have more specialization then. Agents, etc.
21:13:24	rusty	but basically, we'll burn that bridge when we come to it
21:13:30	Inoshiro	Or blow it up
21:13:34	rusty	right
21:13:34	Inoshiro	As the Germans might say ;)
21:13:42	Questions	Flaggovic asks: What's up with scoop.k5?
21:13:52	rusty	heh
21:13:53	Inoshiro	Brent :)
21:14:00	rusty	um, first code problems, then server problems
21:14:05	Inoshiro	He hasn't delegated root responsibly for the server side
21:14:07	rusty	it should be back up very soon we don't acually run that site
21:14:28		Inoshiro is just bitter 'cause he doesn't get root on yet another machine
21:14:29	rusty	bmetzler is our volunteer scoop.k5 maintainer but it will be abck soon, and the 0.6 release will also be otu very soon meantime you can always go to sourceforge for the code
21:15:16	Inoshiro	And then all world problems will be solved
21:15:41		Gullie is away.. bedtime .... zzzz ..(log+page)
21:16:14	Questions	cesarb asks: What was the first post ever in kuro5hin made by someone that's not rusty, Inoshiro, or someone they invited to kuro5hin.org?
21:16:20	Inoshiro	Ooh Lemme dig that up I was looking at it the other day http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory&sid=99/12/21/1624243 <-- The first story http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory&sid=99/12/30/2246209 <-- The first user-write-in story
21:18:04	Questions	GandalfGreyhame asks: Inoshiro and Rusty : If you couldn't touch a linux or *BSD, what OS would you use for everyday use? :)
21:18:07	rusty	actually, our deep dark secret is that the site started on Slash :-) hm I'd probably go back to making furniture :-)
21:18:40	Inoshiro	CP/M would cause me to take my life, or start drinking heavily
21:19:06	rusty	i've never tried Be though, Gandalf, since i know that's what you really want us to say :-) I'm sure it's very nice
21:19:27	Inoshiro	http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=comments&sid=2000/01/04/0816217&cid=6#6 <-- First ever comment I can find !(rusty || Inoshiro)
21:19:32	Questions	sugarush asks: rusty: can you build me a kuro5hin (tm) brand desk?
21:19:35	Inoshiro	You damned Bealot ;)
21:19:39	rusty	hehe no. :-)
21:19:49	Inoshiro	What about me?
21:19:57	Questions	cesarb asks: Did you get nervous waiting for the interview?
21:19:58		Inoshiro is an admin and demands perks
21:20:05	rusty	but if anyone's ever in cataumet Mass, on Cape Cod, stop by Woodworks and buy something not really. It's just IRC. hard to get nervous for IRC
21:20:32	Inoshiro	I was a bit nervous a couple of times But it's not quite the same as being in a room full of the same amount of people
21:21:01	rusty	yes or talking to Emmett on the phone
21:21:12	Questions	OneFix asks: How is Edna Graustein?
21:21:13	Inoshiro	Of course, I can very easily imagine you're all at home in front of the terminal in your underwear
21:21:14	rusty	that's a lot scarier Edna's doing well. She enjoyed her little vacation
21:21:52	Inoshiro	She loves all the comments and stories you send her
21:21:52	rusty	we stopped by on our way through KC to say hi indeed
21:22:11	Questions	CheSera asks: How much crap have you guys gotten for changing the site around? Do you think any of it is justified?
21:22:15	Inoshiro	'we' being not inclusive of me
21:22:19	rusty	heh
21:22:25	Inoshiro	Yes and no
21:22:27	rusty	i take all the "credit" for the redesign there's been some whining, especially about the 3-column front page
21:22:58	Inoshiro	Rusty gets to change things because he is the admin
21:22:59	rusty	but considering there's over 5K users, and only about 6 of them have said they don't like it I'm not too concerned
21:23:29	Inoshiro	It's his vision for the site :-) We try to make our users happy But he loves that colour of blue.
21:23:33	rusty	we always do like to hear people's thoughts on the site though most of the good ideas have been someone elses. I just implement
21:24:09	Questions	sugarush asks: Do you guys use the VA server and Vhosting bandwidth for anything other than kuro5hin? Perhaps a music or program "backup" center?
21:24:15	Inoshiro	Yeah. Rusty's not a thinker so much as a patch monkey ;)
21:24:24	rusty	heh actually, we're going to be using them for a new scoop site in novemberish
21:24:45	Inoshiro	Well
21:24:50	rusty	but that's all I'm gonna say right now :-)
21:25:12	Inoshiro	We do have gobs of harddrive space I don't see us using for at least 2 years
21:25:35	Questions	CheSera asks: If you could find the script kiddies who blasted you guys, what would you do to them?
21:25:46	rusty	laugh at them and their sad, sad little lives
21:25:59	Inoshiro	rusty and I want to get a K5 radio going People can call in and ask questions and the like
21:26:28	rusty	whatever. honestly, they're probably like 13 years old
21:26:29	Inoshiro	With 17gb free for MySQL and another 17gb for Apache, .. we can certainly do an entire online K5 show without any problems
21:26:39	rusty	have no friends, and spend all their time in front of a machine. I'd encourage them to go play soccer or something (Inoshiro's lagged btw)
21:27:37	Questions	Flaggovic asks: What's your favorite weblog besides K5 and /.?
21:27:48	Inoshiro	(Assuming /. is a favourite)
21:27:51	rusty	Brunching Shuttlecocks :-) and it's actually quite a bit above /. in my bookmarks :-) http://www.brunching.com
21:28:28	Inoshiro	I read kt.linuxcare.com and lwn.net myself
21:28:29	rusty	i also like NTK, Advogato, and the register
21:28:40	Inoshiro	As well as Alan Cox's diary and Advogato
21:29:36	Questions	OneFix asks: What do you think about the RustyTaco/KuroDot article written by segfault?
21:29:44	Inoshiro	I laughed
21:29:46	rusty	ha! that was really funny
21:29:50	Inoshiro	Yeah If you ever feel the need, buy me pizza
21:29:59	rusty	it actually cheered me up a lot in the midst of all the crap in july
21:30:03	Inoshiro	I can provide you with the number of a place that takes cards ;)
21:30:19	rusty	if you're being satired by segfault, you must be doing something right
21:30:24	Inoshiro	;-)
21:30:34	Questions	_RST asks: what is your opinion on GPL vs BSD/X11 and other licences?
21:30:45	rusty	use whatever license works for you
21:30:55	Inoshiro	I think I said it best when I said, " I don't care .. I use what I like, you use what you like"
21:31:09	rusty	i used GPL for Scoop because I don't want people to be able to make my work proprietary but in a lot of cases, that doesn't make sense much like language wars and desktop wars, we tend to not get involved :-)
21:32:17	Questions	Ino5hiro asks: What is the funniest thing rusty has ever said?
21:32:42	Inoshiro	6. Fondling schoolgirls on the subway. No, wait, that was supposed to be in the Ten Best Things About Tokyo.
21:32:54	rusty	lol
21:32:55	Inoshiro	Or "Huch! I believe, I made her wet." That should be our new slogan I think. "
21:33:04	rusty	glad Inoshiro gets to amuse himself here
21:33:08	Inoshiro	:>
21:33:24	Questions	DJBongHit asks: How long has kuro5hin been around?
21:33:26	Inoshiro	( http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory&sid=99/12/23/2016246 and http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory&sid=99/12/31/167212 btw ) That depends on how you define Kuro5hin
21:33:39	rusty	since January 2000 Late december, at the earliest
21:33:51	Inoshiro	Rusty will say jan 2k because he is not all Zen like I am
21:33:53	rusty	it ran slash then though what's the zen answer?
21:34:21	Inoshiro	We had a slash phase, a "better slash" phase, a "scoop 0.2" phase, and then the current phase .. which is the rusty could be hit by a bus and we could continue phase :) I think rusty said it best when he got back from a Ski trip back in late Feb and saw all the stories we'd posted in his absence (Story moderation was so new, it had the new hardware smell to it then)
21:35:11	rusty	[18:29:48] *drdink* hmm, sounds like he's plotting..
21:35:18	Inoshiro	Uh
21:35:20	rusty	yes in my mind, that weekend in feb was when i felt like, "Hey, this isactually gonna work!"
21:35:45	Inoshiro	Great, now I'm suspect #1 is rusty gets murdered.
21:36:05	rusty	i left the site all alone, came back and there were like a dozen new stories it was eerie but cool
21:36:25	Questions	panner asks: With the recent flood of new users, do you feel that story moderation has become ineffective in it's current state?
21:36:35	Inoshiro	Ha! no :) Every time newbies come along, the old guys go and shudder for a bit
21:36:59	rusty	not at all
21:37:02	Inoshiro	Then the newbies figure it out
21:37:22	rusty	look at wednesday on, the new stories have been fantastic as I mentioned in a comment, it goes in cycles
21:37:39	Inoshiro	On the other side, our traffic has been half that of Tuesday since
21:37:50	rusty	lots of new users, some bad stories, then people get used to it and the quality goes right back up
21:37:51	Inoshiro	So most of the /.ers who couldn't figure it out left
21:39:11	Questions	cesarb asks: What's rusty's and Inoshiro's current mojo?
21:39:17	rusty	ha
21:39:18		Inoshiro has super_mojo
21:39:20	rusty	i have no idea we both have super_mojo
21:39:31	Inoshiro	As the super users, we have super mojo ;)
21:39:38	rusty	which means that we are trusted permanently
21:39:45	Inoshiro	'cause we're super
21:39:53	rusty	but i'm actually trusted independently of that, so it's pretty good i guess
21:40:00	Inoshiro	We're kind enough, good enough, and, damnit, people like us.
21:40:01	rusty	we're mojo whores. :-)
21:40:19	Questions	cesarb asks: Could you tell us a bit more about the latest "db leak" security incident you had?
21:40:25	Inoshiro	Rusty's fault
21:40:26	rusty	ha
21:40:29		rusty blushes
21:40:29	Inoshiro	Skin him alive!
21:40:35	rusty	what happened was
21:40:42	drdink	MSN Kuro5hin Project.
21:40:43	rusty	way way back in december, we ran slash and slash stores passwords in plaintext
21:41:04	Inoshiro	Disclaimer: I was not associated with K5 back then, so I wasn't involved in the slash process
21:41:10	rusty	i had a dump of the old slash DB sitting around on the images.kuro5hin.org server
21:41:21	Inoshiro	And because of rusty's password !changing habits
21:41:31	rusty	for no apparent reason. someone found it, unpacked it, and discovered that my password was the same that was it
21:41:57	Inoshiro	Scoop uses md5 hashes of passwords (Or should)
21:42:24	Questions	transiit asks: Has scoop reached a point of stability that you would recommend the masses that want a similar format begin using it? If not, what's left to implement or fix?
21:42:26	rusty	um, no it doesn't Scoop as of 0.6 will be in good shape for "the masses" to use right now it's a tad messy, cause I've been hacking frantically to get K5 back up but we've frozen features for 0.6, and are now doing cleaning and performance improvements after 0.6, we're going to have a more stable dev program with stable and development branches so that we can keep the stable version in good shape for foljs touse heh there will be much fanfare when 0,.6 is out so i'd recommend waiting till then, really
21:44:48	Questions	GandalfGreyhame asks: Will Scoop run on other OSes without much problems? Such as BeOS (once the network rewrite is released)
21:44:56	Inoshiro	Well Someone (Maarken) made it work on Win32 with Apache32 and Perl
21:45:07	rusty	Maarken ported it to NT actually yes it runs fine on the BSDs and ouught to work on anything that has perl, and mod_perl and thus, by extension, apache
21:45:43	Inoshiro	All it needs is perl and SQL
21:46:05	Questions	res0 asks: What kind of an impact do you think software errors have on readership and return frequency?
21:46:06	rusty	it's heavily mod_perl reliant though. I don't knopw how easy it would be to port it to a non-mod_perl environment hmmmm some, i guess but i think that admin approachability and responsiveness makes much more of a difference
21:46:47	Inoshiro	I'm sure we lost some because of the first day When rusty had to rewrite Scoop while I kept huping Apache
21:47:05	rusty	if a site errors, and you email the admin, and get an answer in an hour, you'll usualyl forgive the software problem but if you never hear back from anyone, you'll go somewhere else i would, at least
21:47:32	Inoshiro	Yeah
21:47:48	Questions	cesarb asks: What do you think of all the meta stories that keep appearing in the queue?
21:47:58	rusty	i like meta-discussion
21:48:03	Inoshiro	We have a category for them
21:48:25	rusty	I don't want it to become a super-navel-gazing extravaganza, but some meta-disucssion is vital if there's one thing that I actively dislike about /. it's the total lack of public meta-discussion i think they should change that but, that's what the Meta section is for so, I like it.
21:49:16	Inoshiro	Actually, lack of public discussion beyond one-off posts on /. People are afraid to talk there for fear of being moderated down. The karma system imposes some interesting social reactions
21:49:56	Questions	transiit asks: So what other project do either of you work on other than scoop or opensales?
21:50:05	rusty	ha
21:50:14	Inoshiro	Well
21:50:16	rusty	I don't really have time to work on other stuff
21:50:37	Inoshiro	I have K5 App (which does RDF stuff), a Linux distribution, various ideas I'm working on coding
21:51:06	rusty	i try to keep my fiancee from forgetting who i am
21:51:08	Inoshiro	I also have a bunch of stuff on my LAN I deal with :)
21:51:10	rusty	:-)
21:51:15	Inoshiro	I'm currently a lonely loner So I can dedicate my time to emotionless machines ;)
21:51:47	Questions	cesarb asks: What do you think about scoop's hidden forums?
21:51:53	Inoshiro	Ha cesarb is confused
21:51:56	rusty	what hidden forums?
21:52:08	Inoshiro	He thinks that stories that are voted down to "Never display" are hidden
21:52:19	rusty	oh
21:52:19	Inoshiro	Admins can see it fine, and anyone who has the sid handy can view them too
21:52:24	rusty	whatever
21:52:30	Inoshiro	You can't just 'create' them like I created sid=Inoshiro on /. So it's a misinterpretation :)
21:52:47	Questions	Ahriman asks: Inoshiro, care to elaborate on the "K5 App (which does RDF stuff)?
21:52:59	Inoshiro	Well, K5 App sites in your gnome panel. What it does is fetch specified RDFs from various sites you specify, show the logo or 'channel' title, and show the links It's kinda like Slashapp, but more generic I use it fine with K5, Slashdot, newsforge, and freshmeat (among others) :-) It's not quite 'done' yet, and can be found at http://www.thock.com/Dylan/code/
21:54:03	Questions	Ahriman asks: Will you be using RSS for that?
21:54:18	Inoshiro	It works on RSS/RDF 0.9 and RSS/RDF 0.91
21:54:35	Questions	Silaron asks: boxers, or briefs?
21:54:41	Inoshiro	Boxers
21:54:50	rusty	boxers
21:54:51	Inoshiro	My boys.. they need their room
21:54:58	Questions	sugarush asks: What kind of games do you guys enjoy?
21:55:00	rusty	heh
21:55:10		rusty is not really a gamer
21:55:11	Inoshiro	Well, I like blowing things up and shooting people As well as loud noises
21:55:29	rusty	i try to do my recreation away from machines
21:55:29	Inoshiro	If you add in scantily clad women, I cover everything from AD&D to Doom
21:55:40	rusty	i do like to rock climb, although i havenm't gotten to in a long time
21:55:41	Inoshiro	rusty's weird like that
21:55:50	rusty	and play paintball :-)
21:55:52	Inoshiro	I prefer to avoid things like that where I could fall and die Or have a bus incident But exercise machines and paintball/laser tag are fun
21:56:19	Questions	GandalfGreyhame asks: Where/when can we find InoshiroLinux ?
21:56:33	Inoshiro	Ueberware will be on www.ueberware.org when it's ready
21:56:49	Questions	OneFix asks: Is your /. account set as "Willing to Moderate"...if so, do you?
21:56:56	rusty	heh
21:57:05	Inoshiro	Yes. I try to moderate. I hate doing it because of the crap once you go below +3
21:57:08	rusty	mine actually isn't because i got mod points a lot and never used them
21:57:15	Inoshiro	But it's something that has to be done, like picking up trash (IMO)
21:57:18	rusty	i don't olike how the /. moderation system works
21:57:25	Inoshiro	Yeah, it's kinda .. bad It can be easily misused
21:57:40	rusty	i wonder if they rate comments on K5 :-)
21:57:44	Inoshiro	Heh
21:57:47		Inoshiro does
21:58:14	Questions	transiit asks: is scoop going to get any new crazy features for special mozilla interfaces?
21:58:24	rusty	it depends
21:58:26	Inoshiro	We might do formzilla
21:58:37	rusty	the forumzilla folks have said they are going to add forumzilla support we'll see how that goes I wouldn't mind seeing a mainiling list gateway
21:59:15	Questions	GandalfGreyhame asks: When will it (Ueberware) Be ready?
22:00:07	drdink	hmm, I think Inoshiro ran away
22:00:10	Inoshiro	Uh When it's ready
22:00:25	Questions	res0 asks: When you meet new people, how do you explain to them what exactly you "do" as a job?
22:00:43	Inoshiro	I don't. I just say I "work" on newsforge.com/kuro5hin.org
22:00:47	rusty	I say "I work for OpenSales" heh it's not that complicated
22:01:01	Inoshiro	If they don't understand, I'm not going to waste my life explaining :)
22:01:15	Questions	acb asks: will any of Ueberware's release names be "TheParanoidPenguin"?
22:01:40	Inoshiro	The first one, but only so you won't send me wombats in the mail
22:02:01	rusty	will it have a logo of a penguin wearing a tin foil hat?
22:02:22	Inoshiro	Now that's a good question
22:02:30	rusty	whee
22:02:34	Inoshiro	I'm not an artist, but that would be good
22:02:39	rusty	thank you all for joining us, and asking all the great questions and we'll see you on K5. :-)
22:02:50	Inoshiro	And acb for being acb >;)
22:03:01	drdink	The forum is over.