<novalogic> I'd like to welcome you all to the Stampede devel team forum20:56
<skibum> Here we go
<weez> wanna start by explaining just what Stampede is?
<novalogic> Before we get started

I'll explain what it is :)
<skibum> go for it
<novalogic> Well

really

I'll paste from the web page

:)20:57
<|> Stampede Linux is an innovative, new approach to Linux distributions.

 We wanted a distribution that was fast, easy for the new user, and

 "awesome" for the power user. So, we decided to create Stampede.
<skibum> Probably

doh ... that was supposed to be a /msg :)
<Rawb> How long is this going to last?
<novalogic> Rawb; as long as you guys want20:58
<weez> Rawb: not sure, when the questions are done? =)
<novalogic> Now, the questions...
<Questions> BOredAtWork asks, What about the legal mess? Has anybody sent a response to Stampede Technologies yet? Any reply?
<Gerwain> ok when do the questions start

oh
<skibum> I'll field this one
<Gerwain> skibum is the only one who knows about the legal mess
<skibum> We drafted a response letter to Stampede Technologies, and sent it to them about 2 weeks ago20:59

We haven't heard anything since
<Questions> Ex-Cyber asks, any word on how far development of the new installer has come?
<skibum> Gerwain will get this one
<Gerwain> well

lemme check21:00

im writing a reusable (to me at least) widgets library along with it

i've ran into a lot of problems in that area, so the actual installer goes on hold too21:01

its not as far along as id like it to be
<Questions> eh asks, will Stampede ever go to platforms other than x86?
<Gerwain> maybe... Minotaur was working on an alpha port...
<RawbX2> Actually, a Alpha port has alredy begun.21:02
<skibum> We currently have a port-in-progress for the Alpha
<Minotaur> An Alpha port is currently in progress.
<Questions> T0ny asks, Has/Is anybody planning to release Stampede on CD-ROM?
<skibum> and PPC is nearly ready to roll out

around 1.0, we will release CD's via standard distribution channels
<Minotaur> We have established the first few core packages, and hope to release the first useable, at least useable for further development, version by .90.
<skibum> right now, you can buy gold cd's
<Questions> real0r asks, i want to know how distribution is going...how many people will recieve/hear about Stampede and how?21:03
<skibum> email discobob@beer.stampede.org for more info
<novalogic> for those of you who dont know, http://www.stampede.org is the Stampede home page.
<skibum> The distribution is going very smothly

People currently hear about Stampede only via news sites like slashdot, and word of mouth21:04
<RawbX2> I think the Linux Journal article brought Stampede Linux to a lot of people, who didn't know about it before, also, places like SLASHDOT and freshmeat have given us a lot of press
<Gerwain> we're doing just peachy
<Questions> eh asks, is the installer as complete as, say the SuSE installer? if not, will it ever be?
<skibum> And I suppose recently, Linux Journal

not yet, but it definitly will be
<RawbX2> Currently the installer is not as complete as the SuSE installer, but Gerwain is quickly working on that.
<Questions> weez asks, Stampede boasts to be 10-30% than other distro's, how does Stampede achive this?
<Gerwain> pgcc21:05

no debugging
<skibum> Aggresive optimization and lack of debugging symbols
<RawbX2> Using pgcc, without any debugging, and by pushing it to higher optimization levels.
<Questions> whee asks, are the programs bundled with stampede fairly recent, or suprisingly old ones like some other dists?21:06
<Minotaur> As much as possible, the most recent stable releases of software is being used.
<skibum> That is something very interesting about Stampede
<RawbX2> We try and find the most recent stable release of any piece of software availible.21:07
<Gerwain> depends on when you got your copy of stampede -- the ones on the ftp site are recent
<skibum> It definitly has more up-to-date packages than any other distribution I know of

AfterStep is the one exception,

which is still packaged at version 1.0

(this will be resolved soon)
<Questions> weez asks, how many developers are involved with stampede?21:08
<skibum> That depends on how you define packages

rather developers

If you define a developer as someone who makes packages

then we've got around 20 or so
<Questions> eh asks, is Stampede going to be GPL based like Debian, or will it be like other distributions and include some commercial demos?21:09
<Minotaur> One of the best things about Stampede, in my opinion, is anyone is a developer. If you want to compile something, and contribute it to the project, it is graciously accepted.
<Gerwain> if there is something good out there, we'll include it
<skibum> It may include some commercial demos, but will always be as free to redistribute as debian. I don't forsee us putting any per-user / per-machine lisenced software in the distribution21:10
<RawbX2> If we can redistribute it, and it's worth something to us, we probably include it in the distro.
<Questions> BOredAtWork asks, When will a stampede CD image be available? How about cheapbytes, lsl, linux central, etc, selling CD's? Can we expect to see it soon?
<skibum> Linux International will be selling CD's soon21:11
<RawbX2> A couple of places have said that they will be selling stampede CD's when Stampede reaches version 1.0
<skibum> I assume the others will definitly be selling 1.0 cd's
<Gerwain> the image will be avaliable when we finish it
<Questions> weez asks, is there an estimated time that 1.0 will be available?
<Gerwain> when we finish it21:12
<skibum> I hope by the end of the year
<Questions> Ex-Cyber asks, Has anyone complained/flamed regarding the exploits package? Is this a major concern for you?
<RawbX2> (Probably sooner)
<skibum> I haven't heard anything yet
<Questions> sn0rk asks, how many megs to download the complete distro?21:13
<skibum> 210M right now
<Questions> gcc asks, does stampede support UMSDOS install (like in slack) and does it support fat32?
<Gerwain> no UMSDOS install right now
<Minotaur> fat32 Support is in place...
<RawbX2> Currently no UMSDOS support, but we do have fat32 built into the bootdisks.
<skibum> No, it doesn't (an probably never will) do UMSDOS, however Fat32 works right now21:14
<Gerwain> and i dont really care to write it, but you never know
<Questions> eh asks, Have you ever thought of making a LIVE version of Stampede for those who don't want to take the complete Linux plunge?
<skibum> Yes

I am hoping to have that by version 1.0
<RawbX2> Probably will happen in the 1.0 version...
<skibum> s/I/we
<Questions> weez asks, How stable would you say Stampede is at this point?
<RawbX2> It still has a few small bugs, but overall it's as stable as linux is supposed to be.21:15
<Questions> drendite asks, How much of an improvement is pgcc over standard egcs?
<skibum> At least as stable as Debian and Redhat, perhaps more so. (The biggest argument I have in our favour is that debian and redhat have glibc-2.0.7 <experimental> and we use glibc-2.0.6<stable>)21:16

About 5-15%

depending on the nature of the program21:17
<Questions> gcc asks, can i use a slackware root/boot disk with stampede (like may be both disks slackware, or root disk slackware, boot disk stampede, or vice versa)?
<RawbX2> You can use a slackware boot disk with the stampede root disk...

(which is handy, until we modularize our bootdisks)
<Questions> drendite asks, What style of Init does Stampede use? (bsd or sysV)21:18
<skibum> A hybrid
<RawbX2> BSD mostly, with SysV support.
<skibum> It is mostly BSD in style, but is 100% sysv compatible
<Questions> eh asks, Will stampede support other packaging formats, such as RPM, DEB, tgz, etc.?
<skibum> Stampede already supports RPM
<Gerwain> if you download the alien package it will.21:19
<skibum> Deb is on the horizon
<Gerwain> :)
<RawbX2> tgz you can't really not support.
<skibum> tgz is still up in the air
<Questions> joyce asks, are there plans to support non-Pentium/Intel distributions?
<RawbX2> We actually had 0.79 for i386... but the maintainer has not done any work on the 0.86 release.21:20
<Questions> Ex-Cyber asks, Have you considered expanding the SLP format to include flags for alpha/beta/stable releases of packages, and a flag for those that have not been stripped because of the need for debugging (e.g. wine)21:21
<skibum> Yes

Alpha is close

PPC and sparc to come soon after

Already included
<RawbX2> the SLP format already has those tags.
<Gerwain> yep already there
<Questions> nadman asks, Is there any advantage to using Stampede/PPC over, say, PPC Linux? The reason I am asking is because the 10-30% improvement you get with PGCC won't really work with the PPC chips.21:22
<skibum> Indeed it won't. However, there is lots more to Stampede than pgcc21:23
<Minotaur> There are going to be many more benefits to Stampede-Linux than merely the speed boost.
<skibum> For instance:

The portable SLP format
<Minotaur> A big benefit is merely the stability of the overall system
<skibum> Up-to-date packages
<RawbX2> If you like how Stampede does things (updated packages), then there are good reasons for PPC...
<skibum> ease of installation
<Questions> bum asks, how far along is the stampede packager21:24
<skibum> stability

And nice developers :)

(arrogant developers?)
<Minotaur> Eh, available on the IRC server often...
<skibum> The package format in inteself is probably in it's second to last mutation

The package tools are about 50% there21:25

The package management system is just begining
<Questions> OctobrX asks, I know I'm a late comer to this... But what is the default WindowManager for Stampede?
<skibum> No default
<RawbX2> Hmm.. I think right now twm is default if you don't change anything....21:26
<skibum> I've almost got the window manager selection tool done
<Questions> eh asks, does stampede use stable kernels?
<RawbX2> Yup. and there is a contrib package for the development kernel.
<skibum> So, when you type startx, you are presented with a list to choose from, generated from currently installed packages21:27
<Questions> drendite asks, Does pgcc include optimizations for Cyrix, K6, Pentium 2, etc.. ?
<skibum> YEs

Pgcc has pentium, pentiumpro, and pentium2 <this is new> optimizations
<Questions> Ex-Cyber asks, are any revisions of the directory structure of the distribution planned? currently alpha and beta software is mixed in with stable...21:28
<skibum> clones like the K6 / K6/2 will see a definite improvement with pentium optimization

That's still up in the air
<RawbX2> Sometimes, you will come across a beta product that is much more stable than the other tools availible, if it seems pretty sturdy, we'll probably include it.21:29
<Minotaur> WindowMaker, for example. 6.5, I think, is still the "stable" version, while 16.1 is equally stable, and much more complete.
<Questions> OctobrX asks, Hmmm... I take it stampede will be geared more towards those that are "in the know" as opposed to Non-technical types like myself? I personaly run Linux for its GUI capabilities.. was probably the first non-hacker to run Linux (still have no clue what I'm doing) :) However, if you typeing ./configure ; make ; make install doesn't fix my problems, I normally don't bother with it... should I still try Stampede?21:30
<Minotaur> A big thing with Stampede is giving the end user plenty of options. Include the stable version, throw in the devel version as an option, let the user decide for themselves.
<skibum> OctobrX: absolutly at version 1.0

it should be very easy to use21:31
<Questions> joyce asks, how hard is stampede to install? red hat takes me two disks and twenty minutes (well, in theory. =) ) can stampede beat that?
<skibum> for now, it's kindof a tossup

Stampede is about equivalent to an install of slackware right now (in ease)

And the speed varies greatly by many factors
<RawbX2> (I.E. NFS over the internet is butt slow...)21:32
<skibum> so while I can install on my Dual pentium II in about 10 minutes, you may not be able to :)
<Questions> weez asks, one of the biggest problems suffered by newcomers, is the comlicantacy of setting up post-install features. i.e: printer, ppp, etc... how does stampede handle this?
* skibum wishes he really had a Dual Pentium II
<skibum> Questions: By easy to use configuration tools (version 1.0)21:33

s/questions/weez/

Right now, it's about the same as trying to set up ppp/printer/blah in slackware
<RawbX2> I think the printer is still one of the most difficult beasts to tame (in Linux) ... just barely beating INNd in setup difficulty...
<Questions> joyce asks, how is ISDN and ADSL support under stampede?
<skibum> not really sure21:34

Minotaur may be able to give you a report

however every one else has a 33.6

:)
<Questions> dabman asks, you sure pgcc supports PII ?!
<RawbX2> We do include dhcp, which is needed for many DSL providers.
<skibum> yes
<discobob> Stampede is running on the PII next to me...21:35
<Questions> eh asks, will Stampede come with the software needed to setup a cluster, or will we have to go to Extreme Linux?
<skibum> Definitly sometime in the future, possibly (50/50) by 1.0
<Questions> drendite asks, Are any WindowMangers included other than twm?21:36
<Minotaur> For the record, I should clarify an earlier comment of mine. I was corrected in that the current version of WindowMaker is now 17.5, and not 16.1 as I earlier stated.21:37
<skibum> WindowMaker, Afterstep, twm, KDE, Gnome, Blackbox
<discobob> KDE, Gnome, WindowMaker, Afterstep, E, BlackBox...
<skibum> E
<discobob> fvwm
<skibum> fvwm2
<Questions> novalogic asks, programs such as irc clients and other things use GNU ./configure scripts to set them selfs up, how well do they work, do you have to modify them at all to compile those things?21:38
<skibum> They work great21:39

something that amazes me about stampede and configure scripts is:

checking for *** .. yes

is something you will generally see
<weez> op skibum_21:40
<Questions> weez asks, is Stampede development a totally volunteer based operation?
<weez> oops
<discobob> yes
<Gerwain> yes it is totally volunteer
<skibum> 100%
<Gerwain> discobob runs a sweatshop though...
<skibum> haha
<discobob> Gerwain!
<Questions> eh asks, will Stampede come with the Corel demos (eg: Word Perfect 7)?21:41
<discobob> Now Kathy Lee's gonna be pissed at me!
<skibum> That depends on the licensing

I'll have to read it carefully before I can give you a yes/no
<Questions> gandalf asks, does stampede have an "advanced user" aura with such distributions as slackware? I mean, what are the differences between slack and stampede? I'm looking for something as customizable and advanced as slackware without such idiotic decisions as egcs 1.0x with a 2.0.x kernel...21:42
<skibum> Stampede definitly has the "advanced user" aura.
<RawbX2> It's probably the closest related to slackware (well... with glibc and pgcc)
<skibum> The differences betweek slackware and stampede are huge though

I disagree with rawb,21:43

Slackware and stampede aren't really alike

other than the default color ls :)
<discobob> installing/removing programs is a lot easier.
<Questions> drendite asks, What IRC Clients does Stampede include? Does it include cutting-edge clients such as EPIC? (:21:44
<skibum> BitchX, Epic, and tkirc are the only ones included right now
<RawbX2> and yagIRC
<skibum> oh yeah
<Questions> novalogic asks, What kind of userbase uses Stampede right now, do you have any numbers on that?
<discobob> none at all21:45
<skibum> err something
<RawbX2> Don't really have a definite number....
<skibum> My estimiation is in the tens of thousands

juding my amount of downloads
<discobob> nay, millions!
<Questions> gandalf asks, what is the projected size for a full installation of stampede - and is there somewhere where I can find a package list of what/what isn't included?
<skibum> he's a tad eccentric, excuse him
<RawbX2> http://stampede.gdiweb.com .. has a complete listing, with a search feature.21:46
<skibum> A full installation will never be recommended, but it'll probably be upwards of 1.2 gig

stampede.gdiweb.com is still a tad out of date though21:47
<Questions> weez asks, does the slp packager handle dependency's?
<skibum> not yet

that's the next obsticle, I project a 2 week delivery on slp tools that do
<Questions> gandalf asks, is stampede currently distributed on media such as cd etc, and will it ever be offered by cheapbytes etc?21:48
<skibum> absolutly

we sell gold cd's now (for $10)
<weez> gold?

as in, the color of the cd?
<discobob> CD-R
<weez> =)
<Questions> eh asks, will Stampede ever be as complete as the SuSE Install, package wise? (All packages over the 3 have choices in the installer)
<skibum> and cheapbytes/lsl/li have expressed intrest in distributing Cds at 1.0

I hope so21:49
<weez> would you guys like to open this place up for un-moderated discussion now?